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Science Disproves Evolution

Who keeps that clock wound up?
I note from this, and subsequent postings, that you have resorted to xian apologist tactic #7: Answering Every Question With Another Question.
Was this your own idea? Or were you advised to do this?
 
Where have transitional fossils been found? What genetic evidence are you referring to?

Evolutionists themselves long ago abandoned horse evolution as an example of transitional forms, since they no longer believe the fossil record represents anything like a straightforward progression, but instead a bush with many varying branches. As Heribert Nilsson correctly pointed out as long ago as 1954:

“The family tree of the horse is beautiful and continuous only in the textbooks. In the reality provided by the results of research it is put together from three parts, of which only the last can be described as including horses. The forms of the first part are just as much little horses as the present day damans are horses. The construction of the horse is therefore a very artificial one, since it is put together from non-equivalent parts, and cannot therefore be a continuous transformation series” (pp. 551-552, emp. added).

In 1841, the earliest so-called “horse” fossil was discovered in clay around London. The scientist who unearthed it, Richard Owen, found a complete skull that looked like a fox's head with multiple back-teeth as in hoofed animals. He called it Hyracotherium. He saw no connection between it and the modern-day horse.

In 1874, another scientist, Kovalevsky, attempted to establish a link between this small fox-like creature, which he thought was 70 million years old, and the modern horse.

In 1879, an American fossil expert, O. C. Marsh, and famous evolutionist Thomas Huxley, collaborated for a public lecture which Huxley gave in New York. Marsh produced a schematic diagram which attempted to show the so-called development of the front and back feet, the legs, and the teeth of the various stages of the horse. He published his evolutionary diagram in the American Journal of Science in 1879, and it found its way into many other publications and textbooks. The scheme hasn't changed. It shows a beautiful gradational sequence in “the evolution” of the horse, unbroken by any abrupt changes. This is what we see in school textbooks.

The question is: “Is the scheme proposed by Huxley and Marsh true?”

The simple answer is “No”. While it is a clever arrangement of the fossils on an evolutionary assumption, even leading evolutionists such as George Gaylord Simpson backed away from it. He said it was misleading.

If it were true, you would expect to find the earliest horse fossils in the lowest rock strata. But you don't. In fact, bones of the supposed “earliest” horses have been found at or near the surface. Sometimes they are found right next to modern horse fossils!
O.C. Marsh commented on living horses with multiple toes, and said there were cases in the American Southwest where “both fore and hind feet may each have two extra digits fairly developed, and all of nearly equal size, thus corresponding to the feet of the extinct Protohippus”. 
In National Geographic (January 1981, p. 74), there is a picture of the foot of a so-called early horse, Pliohippus, and one of the modern Equus that were found at the same volcanic site in Nebraska. The writer says: “Dozens of hoofed species lived on the American plains.” Doesn't this suggest two different species, rather than the evolutionary progression of one?

There is no one site in the world where the evolutionary succession of the horse can be seen. Rather, the fossil fragments have been gathered from several continents on the assumption of evolutionary progress, and then used to support the assumption. This is circular reasoning, and does not qualify as objective science.

The theory of horse evolution has very serious genetic problems to overcome. How do we explain the variations in the numbers of ribs and lumbar vertebrae within the imagined evolutionary progression? For example, the number of ribs in the supposedly “intermediate” stages of the horse varies from 15 to 19 and then finally settles at 18. The number of lumbar vertebrae also allegedly swings from six to eight and then returns to six again.

Finally, when evolutionists assume that the horse has grown progressively in size over millions of years, what they forget is that modern horses vary enormously in size. The largest horse today is the Clydesdale; the smallest is the Fallabella, which stands at 17 inches (43 centimeters) tall. Both are members of the same species, and neither has evolved from the other.

Why do science textbooks continue to use the horse as a prime example of evolution, when the whole schema is demonstrably false? Why do they continue to teach our kids something that is not scientific? Dr. Niles Eldredge, curator of the American Museum of Natural History, has said:

“I admit that an awful lot of that (imaginary stories) has gotten into the textbooks as though it were true. For instance, the most famous example still on exhibit downstairs (in the American Museum) is the exhibit on horse evolution prepared perhaps 50 years ago. That has been presented as literal truth in textbook after textbook. Now I think that that is lamentable …”.

The horse series is often presented as proof of evolution. The number of toes in foreleg and hind leg supposedly decreased as the horse evolved, and the size supposedly increased from a small doglike horse to a large modern horse. Yet three-toed horses have been found with one-toed horses, showing they lived at the same time. And there are tiny living Fallabella horses only 17 inches ( 43 centimeters) tall.

REFERENCES

O. C. Marsh, “Recent Polydactyle Horses”, American Journal of Science 43, 1892, pp. 339-354 - as quoted in Creation Research Society Quarterly correspondence, Vol. 30, December 1993, p. 125.

Niles Eldredge, as quoted in: Luther D. Sunderland, Darwin's Enigma: Fossils and Other Problems, fourth edition (revised and expanded), Master Book Publishers, Santee (California),1988, p. 78.

http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c016.html

Wow, you're seriously trying to pass of work by Marsh in the nineteenth century (1870s) before further transitional fossils were discovered? You really have no shame do you? In the unlikely event you are interested in the truth I suggest you look here for up to date information on the reality of equine evolution.

Your deceitful distortion of Simpson's work is fully answered here though, again, I doubt you'll even bother to look at it.......

Sunderland's book is merely another creationist tract full of distortions, out of context mined quotes and similar rubbish. Eldridge, who you allegedly quote from, refuted him in The Monkey Business and The Triumph of Evolution. Again books you haven't, and won't, read.
 
Well, the majority of Christians are not actually, creationist.
The proportion is shamefully higher in the states, of course, due to an impressive disinformation machine... but it still not 85%...

You are terribly misinformed. You confuse "creationist" with having legitimate doubts about the 150 year old theory first formally posited by Charles Darwin, long before we knew the profound complexity of life.

And even then, no, the majority of creationists are just victims of the propaganda, I believe, and hope, that if confronted with the evidences (some of which were presented earlier in this thread, what about addressing these rather than your cutesy sarcasm...).

You pretend that YOU have all the answers, and anyone who does not march in lockstep with you is an ignoramus, a victim of "propaganda." This is the identical hateful and condescending tactic taken by global warming fearmongers, bent on controlling everyone else. It is anti-scientific and it is shameful.

Now since you pretend to know so very much about Darwinism, let's compare notes, shall we?

Name for me the ONE SINGLE DIAGRAM inside Darwin's book The Origin of Species. What is that diagram? And what is wrong with it?




A) Darwin is not a prophet and nobody claimed is words were the inherent truth.

Sorry but you do exactly that. Not only with Darwin, but also with Al Gore.
tsk, tsk
 
And of course anyone who had read the book knows that races in the title doesn't refer to human races, it refers to varieties of organisms. Humans are hardly mentioned at all in the book.

Black humans are specifically "mentioned" and Darwin makes racist, degrading references to them.


Evolution is distinctly anti-racist.

Oh please, stop it.

"No decent person wants to live in a society which works according to Darwinian laws.... A Darwinian society would be a Fascist state." - Richard Dawkins, Die Presse, July 30, 2005
 
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Black humans are specifically "mentioned" and Darwin makes racist, degrading references to them.

Yes, Black humans are mentioned. Where is your page cite for those racist and degrading references?

This could not be an easier argument for you to win - you are claiming that a particular book, Origin of Species, (which is available free and instantly online) contains evidence of racism, so all you have to do is show us where to win. I was personally only able to find 2 paragraphs in the whole book referring to "negroes" and neither was racist or degrading in context.

By the way, if you are going to try to pass off the time of the writing as evidence of racism (i.e., "look, Darwin used the word 'negro'" od called Africans "savages") that would be idiotic, just to head that off before we start a whole new path.

If Origin of Species, which you claimed was racist, won't support your argument, thereby making it obvious you didn't actually know what you were talking about, then feel free to admit that and move on to Descent of Man to prove Darwin was racist.
 
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If you are going to concede that he wrote it, maybe you would care to give a cite?

chapter vi "the descent of man and selection in relation to sex" said:
"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla"
;)
 
You are terribly misinformed. You confuse "creationist" with having legitimate doubts about the 150 year old theory first formally posited by Charles Darwin, long before we knew the profound complexity of life.

Why not tell us exactly what you believe, evolution deniers never seem to spell that out. While you are at it, how does your story better explain such observations as the fossil record, genetic record, distribution of life, or comparative anatomy. What predictions does it make? What observation would falsify it?

I know you won't do that because you cannot. You only have cheap rhetoric.

There are no legitimate doubts, evident in the fact that there is no debate about whether or not evolution happened among experts. The deniers all do so because it seems to contradict writings in their holy books.

You pretend that YOU have all the answers, and anyone who does not march in lockstep with you is an ignoramus, a victim of "propaganda." This is the identical hateful and condescending tactic taken by global warming fearmongers, bent on controlling everyone else. It is anti-scientific and it is shameful.

Again, there is no controversy. There is nothing scientific about flood geology, young earth geology or evolution denialism. These ideas are contradicted by the evidence. The first two are patently laughable with cursory knowledge of the facts.

Now since you pretend to know so very much about Darwinism, let's compare notes, shall we?

Name for me the ONE SINGLE DIAGRAM inside Darwin's book The Origin of Species. What is that diagram? And what is wrong with it?

Sorry but you do exactly that. Not only with Darwin, but also with Al Gore.
tsk, tsk

You've been told already that Darwin being wrong about something is not going to bring down evolution. The idea has grown beyond this man who had the insight into its mechanism, along with Wallace. Its an idea that well preceded him. Its now so well supported its considered a fact.
 
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@JohnathonQuick

No, in fact I do know the title and I've read the content. I've also read The Descent of Man which is what I thought you were referring to. And I see you're making a somewhat more accurate and toned down claim than before.

Did Darwin think that Negroes were human, ape or something in between?

You don't KNOW? You said you read the book.

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly EXTERMINATE and REPLACE throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes [i.e., most human-looking, like the gorilla or chimpanzee] will no doubt be exterminated. The break [i.e., the evolutionary gap] will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state... than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla." - The Descent of Man, page 201

EMPHASIS ADDED
 
Name for me the ONE SINGLE DIAGRAM inside Darwin's book The Origin of Species. What is that diagram? And what is wrong with it?

A hypothetical clade diagram. What of it?


"No decent person wants to live in a society which works according to Darwinian laws.... A Darwinian society would be a Fascist state." - Richard Dawkins, Die Presse, July 30, 2005

Would you want a society based on Ohm's laws? Do you reject those too?
 
You don't KNOW? You said you read the book.
Yeah, I know. I've already answered the question. I've also already provided a link to the quote you're now showing me.

Once you catch up, could you please answer my question? Did Darwin think that Negros are/were a race of human, a race of ape, or something in between? I know the answer. I, and others, are wondering if you do.
 
What evidence proves evolution to be true?
Anti-biotics resistence, crop resistence, pest resistence.
Pasteur demonstrated that all life comes from pre-existing life of the same kind and never comes from non-living matter. Doesn't that also apply to an alleged lifeless earth?

pasteur was a long time ago, that was a hypothesis, abiogenesis is note volution.
 
Where is that evidence? As I have been sharing, science disproves evolution. Why not simply give up your incorrect beliefs? It's obvious you are wrong? Where is the value in sticking with an idea that is incorrect?

So far what you have shared has been wrong, you were wrong about liquifaction and teh quartz, what were you right about? You were wrong about entropy? What were you right about?

So what causes antibiotic resistence?
 
You have jumped (again) to the wrong conclusion. Why should I repeat in my own words something that is explained much better in the book available for your inspection?
Because so far what you presented from the book is wrong, so what part of it is right?
 
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I went back and edited to invite him to argue racism in Descent of Man as well, but what JonathanQuick claimed to start this whole thing was that Origin of Species was full of racism. I don't believe anything in Descent of Man is either racist or incorrect (other than in a modern "political" sense) but it doesn't change the fact that that JonathanQuick was relying on BS internet rumor, rather than Origin of Species, for his claim.
 
You don't KNOW? You said you read the book.

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly EXTERMINATE and REPLACE throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes [i.e., most human-looking, like the gorilla or chimpanzee] will no doubt be exterminated. The break [i.e., the evolutionary gap] will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state... than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla." - The Descent of Man, page 201

EMPHASIS ADDED


Even after Marduk posted it for you, it still took that much editing to get what you wanted?:D
 
I went back and edited to invite him to argue racism in Descent of Man as well, but what JonathanQuick claimed to start this whole thing was that Origin of Species was full of racism. I don't believe anything in Descent of Man is either racist or incorrect (other than in a modern "political" sense) but it doesn't change the fact that that JonathanQuick was relying on BS internet rumor, rather than Origin of Species, for his claim.

i think if someone said the same things as Darwin said then, today, that it would clearly be racist, but when you take into account the political climate and common ideology of the time, its just an observation based on his surroundings
;)

This doesn't change the fact that Caucasoids are more evolved than Negroids though does it.
:p
 
You don't KNOW? You said you read the book.

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly EXTERMINATE and REPLACE throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes [i.e., most human-looking, like the gorilla or chimpanzee] will no doubt be exterminated. The break [i.e., the evolutionary gap] will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state... than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla." - The Descent of Man, page 201

EMPHASIS ADDED

Page 193 not 201, and he does not conflate teh apes with the humans, you did.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Zv...ok_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#
 
Why not tell us exactly what you believe, evolution deniers never seem to spell that out. While you are at it, how does your story better explain such observations as the fossil record, genetic record, distribution of life, or comparative anatomy. What predictions does it make? What observation would falsify it?

Here are just a few of your mistakes.

1. MY "story" is really quite irrelevant to neo-Darwinism. Science must stand, or fall, on its own. While it is often the case that an old theory, such as the Caloric Theory of Heat, falls to a newer one, viz. Molecular Motion, it is not necessary.

2. Neo-Darwinism is compelling in a variety of ways. It is plausible.
But so too were many other theories, such as the Steady State Universe.
Very troubling was the reaction of Albert Einstein and the entire scientific community, when Catholic Priest George LeMaitre proposed the Primordial Atom, which we now call the Big Bang.

Einsteiin's reaction, that of rejecting God, was identical to the reactions of Darwinists - deny, deny, deny. Einstein had an ax to grind. I suspect that you do as well.

I know you won't do that because you cannot. You only have cheap rhetoric.

What a cheap shot that was. I divulged Albert Einstein's inexcusable bias against science, and you call that "cheap rhetoric." I point out Darwin's hateful racism, and you denigrate ME, pretending to be enlightened yourself.
What cheap rhetoric you display.



There are no legitimate doubts, evident in the fact that there is no debate about whether or not evolution happened among experts. The deniers all do so because it seems to contradict writings in their holy books.

Show one link to any post I have made citing "holy books." Just one.
You see, you engage in the cheapest of cheap rhetoric - lies.

Now as to evolution, please explain the mechanism for the synthesis of human hemoglobin. State the number of amino acids in the alpha and the beta chains. Tell readers how many amino acids are used in this sequence, and state the probability of producing this formulation from random mutation, followed by natural selection.



Again, there is no controversy. ///



There is SO "no controversy" that National Geographic magazine featured a "missing link" a few years ago on its cover. It was, like so many other "missing links," a fraud, but hey, to Darwinists, frauds are "no controversy."

And the smooth transition of millions of fossils.... nowhere to be found.
They were promised, but new finds almost always create bigger gaps instead of filling them in.

I am reminded of the words of a prominent Darwinist when a fossil supposed to be transitional between land based mammals and the whales was claimed to be "the most beautiful a Darwinist could hope for."

What does this transition to a whale look like? A crocodile.
 

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