Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[Rincewind]

Is that the Lilith who appeared in Cheers?

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

Is that the Lilith who appeared in Cheers?

Actually yes it is. At least that is why the producers named Frasier's wife Lilith as an "in-joke", as Frasier always thought of his wife as a Demon.

Also the source of Lilith Fair, the "Feminist" festival. Apparently (once again according to Hebrew traditions) Lilith was no good for Adam because she wouldn't "obey" him, and she wanted to be the one on top when they had sex. So God cast her out and cursed her (and created the more Subservient Eve), and Lilith ended up consorting with and bearing Demon children.

Of course these myths are all retellings of the original Mesopotamian Myths.

GB

 

[carlitos]

with apologies, let me know if this post is out of line vs. the MA

I've already discussed the passage at least 10 times so I'm not going to repeat my response.

That's a smart move. Those previous "arguments" were quite poor.

To summarize:

1.) Regardless of your interpretation (dolous OR servant), one sees jesus as condoning the beating of another for violating a rule they were unaware of. Not just punish, but physical beating.
2.) Yes, jesus was talking to a different culture, but he is supposedly the timeless son of god. Yet, he still acted as though beating another human as an acceptable form of punishment.

Really, DOC. You can lie to yourself as much as you want to. Jesus was an *******. He said that it's OK to beat a servant who did something wrong, even though that servant didn't know what he did was wrong. It's fine. You LIE. You LIE for Jesus. Your Jesus was a *********** ******* who approved of beating people for no God Damn reason. **** your God and **** your Jesus. If you ever read the *********** book you claim "told the truth," maybe you would figure some of this out. Liar.

PS - Your "response" to the Luke passage in question is a fat, steaming pile of ****. Nonsense. Worthless. So no, please don't repost it. Liar.

 

[TSR]

[qimg]http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1124/picture15kj.png[/qimg]

Where and when did Simon the Zealot die, DOC?

.
On Broadway? "Neither you Simon, nor the 50,000 / Nor the Romans, nor the Jews..."


Have I just dated myself again?
.

 

[Akhenaten]

.
On Broadway? "Neither you Simon, nor the 50,000 / Nor the Romans, nor the Jews..."


Have I just dated myself again?
.

At least you're not alone.

So I guess Christ did come at exactly the right time then if this was the behavior of the most powerful nation on earth.

You aren't supposed to be guessing, DOC, you're supposed to be providing evidence.

I think Joobz said one time Christ should have come later when there was better communication so more people could have witnessed his mininistry. But I think the above shows the world needed him desperately at that time.

No, it was Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Every time I look at you
I don't understand
Why you let the things you did
Get so out of hand
You'd have managed better
If you'd had it planned
Now why'd you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?

If you'd come today
You could have reached the whole nation
Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication.​

And if the above was the behavior of the emperor and the most powerful nation on earth, a good argument could be made that yes, Christianity is the reason we even have a Western Civilization.

No DOC, you're wrong again. What we call 'Western Civilization' was built on foundations which were laid long, long before christianity arrived to hobble everything (think 'Dark Ages').

Read the book "What if Jesus had never been Born".

The evidence we've seen so far is that he wasn't, so the 'What if' part seems a bit redundant.

It is actually quite scary to think how the world might have turned out if Jesus never came.

He didn't, and it's not.

Stop preaching at people.

 

[zooterkin]

It can mean slave and it can mean servant (in Greek) according to the link joobz provided.

And the word was used in reference to the Jewish culture not the Greek culture.

What about those nasty Romans who were actually in charge, as you keep reminding us when it seems convenient for you?

Bottom line, 9 translations translate it as servant. If you would have read all of this thread you would have known this.

If you had read all of this thread, you would have known that it's quite possible for those translations to be wrong, as well as many other things you seem to have missed.

 

[amb]

Why is the evidence for N/T any clearer or truer than say the
Veda, the epic of Gilgamesh, The Egyptian Book Of the Dead, or any other ancient fable?

 

[Lothian]

Why is the evidence for N/T any clearer or truer than say the
Veda, the epic of Gilgamesh, The Egyptian Book Of the Dead, or any other ancient fable?

Slaves weren't whipped by Thomas Jefferson into cutting out the supernatural parts of the Veda.

909 martyrs didn’t die of cyanide poisoning rather than disown the epic of Gilgamesh.

The Egyptian Book Of the Dead doesn't describe 6 totally different deaths of Simon the Zealot, which is exactly what you would expect if the book was put together after generations of oral tradition.

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

Why is the evidence for N/T any clearer or truer than say the Veda, the epic of Gilgamesh, The Egyptian Book Of the Dead, or any other ancient fable?

It's not.

But about the only Christian Apologist that I can think of who came close to acknowledging this was CS Lewis. After the atheist Lewis had been softened up by Owen Barfield towards a general--almost deist--sort of Theism, Tolkien and Dyson completed the conversion process by arguing to Lewis that Christianity was a "True" Myth, not to be understood as True through Empiricism, but through the Imagination.

Having grown up with a pagan world-view, this finally appealed to Lewis, who ended up essentially seeing Christianity through a Pagan lens. And even in his Christian Phase, a careful reading of Lewis reveals a very Universalist view, that acknowledges (in an almost Joseph Campbell-ish approach) all the ancient dying and resurrecting Sun God Myths as pre-iterations of the Christ story.

Many of Lewis's evangelical supporters would be quite shocked at how "liberal" Lewis's Theology was. He openly admitted to "nearly reverting to paganism" when visiting the statue of Apollo in Greece, recognizing Apollo as "a sub-specie of Christ." He openly explored some shared themes of Christianity and Taoism (and other religious and philosophical schools of thought) in The Abolition of Man. In Mere Christianity he expresses some views that are essentially Valentinian. He was always big on Plato, and Virgil, and classical Pagan philosophers.

He would have been first in line to acknowledge the shared mythos of Christianity and the epic of Gilgamesh, and to respect the value of the Vedas.

Lewis's arguments for Christianity weren't a pretense at Empiricism (which he thought all well and fine in terms of explaining the physical universe, but a poor foundation for a healthy psychological world-view), but were essentially an argument for the Imagination as the basis for Belief in God.

In short, Lewis was the Anti-DOC of Christian Apologetics.

GB

 

[kmortis]

Can we get back to starting the Abenhatenist religion already? This DOC guy is a heretic who should be...um...should be...


Do we even HAVE a punishment for heresy yet?

 

[Lothian]

Can we get back to starting the Abenhatenist religion already? This DOC guy is a heretic who should be...um...should be...


Do we even HAVE a punishment for heresy yet?

Perhaps....

For the wrath of Aberhaten is revealed through Corel PaintShop Photo Pro X3 against all unaberhatenliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

Far better than the Christian solution

If there be found among you, man or woman, that hath served other gods, then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

 

[Aitch]

Do we even HAVE a punishment for heresy yet?

Yes...

The Comfy Chair!

 

[RoboTimbo]

Can we get back to starting the Abenhatenist religion already? This DOC guy is a heretic who should be...um...should be...


Do we even HAVE a punishment for heresy yet?

Heretics have their posts subjected to the Groundhog Day effect. DOC has been receiving his punishement for the past two years.

 

[kmortis]

Yes...

The Comfy Chair!

Wouldn't that be for a Heretic of Heretics? Granted, DOC qualifies, but I think we need to have a heirarchy of punishments. We don't just jump to the Comfy Chair on the first offence, do we?

Heretics have their posts subjected to the Groundhog Day effect. DOC has been receiving his punishement for the past two years.

Has DOC been receiving that punishment for the last two years, or have we? I'm taking it to be flaggelation on our part.

 

[Mirrorglass]

...and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Execution for dummies? "You shall kill them, by making them dead, until they die, and so are dead, by taking a stone, made of rock, with which you shall stone them, until they are stoned."

Hmm... stoned to death... I think there might be something here.

 

[John Jones]

Why is the evidence for N/T any clearer or truer than say the
Veda, the epic of Gilgamesh, The Egyptian Book Of the Dead, or any other ancient fable?

Because The NT is special?

 

[Toke]

Can we get back to starting the Abenhatenist religion already? This DOC guy is a heretic who should be...um...should be...

Do we even HAVE a punishment for heresy yet?

We could ration their beer and bacon?

It does sound a bit cruel, but they have kind of asked for it.
Severity of rationing could be set by severity of offence and the offenders susbectability to the punishment.

 

[kmortis]

We could ration their beer and bacon?

It does sound a bit cruel, but they have kind of asked for it.
Severity of rationing could be set by severity of offence and the offenders susbectability to the punishment.

We could start by rationing their beer, then move on to their bacon. If the gustatorial punishments don't work...THEN the Comfy Chair. I like it.




Much better than stoning them.




Even if stoning only feels like a sunburn and is favorable to prision.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

If God is ineffable, how can he be the father of Jesus?

 

[Simon39759]

...and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Execution for dummies? "You shall kill them, by making them dead, until they die, and so are dead, by taking a stone, made of rock, with which you shall stone them, until they are stoned."

Hmm... stoned to death... I think there might be something here.

It's repetition for emphasis. It's a pretty common stylistic construction in the NT...