Open Letter to Dave Thomas

[carlitos]

you're supposed to answer questions with questions!

When plastic rugs and furniture burns what happens ?

What happens when these things burn, and you don't have a line of sight to them, like when they are in the center of a building 20 floors above your head, and you're busy working and looking the other way?

How's that?

ETA:

A smoldering fire and a raging fire are just as hot.

No kidding. I forget who it was here, that kept not understanding the barbeque analogy.

 

[ergo]

A smoldering fire and a raging fire are just as hot.

Which is why you can roast weenies over a smoking, green-wood camp fire?

 

[BigAl]

You see flames.

Wrong again. Stinking black smoke, mostly.

This is the second time you've been shown this.

...A fire in a building with modern fittings and materials generates smoke that is thick and black, obscures vision, causes great difficulty in breathing and can block the escape routes.

From:

Fire Safety Risk Assessment - Small and Medium Places of Assembly
Published 5 June 2006
Type(s) Manuals, leaflets and booklets, Good practice and guidance
Site Fire and resilience
ISBN 978 1 85112 820 4
Price .12.00 (free to download below)


http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/fire/firesafetyrisk7

 

[bill smith]

NIST, after their many years of study of these newly publicly released videos and photographs concluded that no structural damage from WTC1 contributed to the collapse of WTC7.

If it should turn out to be otherwise NIST will have even more questions to provide inventive answers for.
.

 

[ergo]

Big Al, burning synthetics still produces flames.

 

[ergo]

And anyway, fire seeks combustible material. It doesn't limit itself to a few rooms out of politeness. The WTC 7 "burned", as you yourselves say, for 6 hours.

 

[BigAl]

NIST, after their many years of study of these newly publicly released videos and photographs concluded that no structural damage from WTC1 contributed to the collapse of WTC7.

.

Correct. Unfought fire caused the collapse.

 

[bill smith]

And then for an unfought fire in a steel-frame building, the building probably collapses. WTC7 did.

Smouldering fires do not radiate much heat Al.

 

[BigAl]

Smouldering fires do not radiate much heat Al.

Simplify much?

Temperature is a function of input (combustion) and output (convection, radiation and conduction). An enclosed smoldering fire can be as hot as open flame.

 

[T.A.M.]

Simplify much?

Temperature is a function of input (combustion) and output (convection, radiation and conduction). An enclosed smoldering fire can be as hot as open flame.

ask the smithy.

TAM

 

[ergo]

Simplify much?

Temperature is a function of input (combustion) and output (convection, radiation and conduction).

Lol. Which is why smoldering fires don't produce the same amount of heat.

 

[bill smith]

Simplify much?

Temperature is a function of input (combustion) and output (convection, radiation and conduction). An enclosed smoldering fire can be as hot as open flame.

Yes, but as you know that fiery heart is generally enclosed in a cooler exterior. If a steel girder for instance passed through the heart of fire that fire wouldn't burn for long because all the heat would soon be wicked aaway by the hundred-miles long contiguous steel frame of the building.

 

[triforcharity]

I don't think you guys understand the relationship between smoke and fire

Where there is smoke, there is fire. Always. Unless it's fake smoke.

When you try to burn green or wet wood in a campfire, what happens?

The heat from the fire turns the water to steam, producing a "white" smoke.

It's steam mixed with smoke. Hence, the change in color.

 

[BigAl]

Lol. Which is why smoldering fires don't produce the same amount of heat.

Temperature is a function of input (combustion) and output (convection, radiation and conduction).

A smoldering fire deep inside WTC7 will have little convection and all the radiation and conduction will heat the steel and concrete and after some hours cause the steel frame to collapse.

 

[triforcharity]

Which is why you can roast weenies over a smoking, green-wood camp fire?

Sure, if you want nasty tasting hot dogs.

 

[DGM]

Lol. Which is why smoldering fires don't produce the same amount of heat.

Is it your claim now that there was not enough fuel in building 7 (Areas NIST predicted) to support the fires of the reported duration?

 

[BigAl]

Yes, but as you know that fiery heart is generally enclosed in a cooler exterior. If a steel girder for instance passed through the hreart of fire that fire wouldn't burn for long because all the heat would soon be wicked aaway by the hundred-miles long contiguous steel frame of the building.

On your planet maybe.

 

[triforcharity]

Simplify much?

Temperature is a function of input (combustion) and output (convection, radiation and conduction). An enclosed smoldering fire can be as hot as open flame.

Exactly. They don't understand how blacksmiths work either.

 

[ergo]

The heat from the fire turns the water to steam, producing a "white" smoke.

It's steam mixed with smoke. Hence, the change in color.

No. Green wood produces a thick, acrid smoke.

 

[bill smith]

On your planet maybe.

You can always show us pictures of smouldering fires from your planet. But will we be impressed by their ferocity ?