Open Letter to Dave Thomas

[Fly Poster]

Hi, a few of you made mention of CD's and the building not reaching freefall speed in a CD, been looking on t'interweb, but can't find anything on this, a shove in the right direction, or a link or two would be very much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[carlitos]

My question was based on a real-world event that you seem to want to discuss. If you would have answered honestly (answer can be found in the NIST report, as ever), we might have had a discussion about the implications to the real world event at the Salomon Brothers building on 9/11/2001.

Enjoy the trolling; maybe someone else will engage.

 

[carlitos]

Fly Poster - try entering "free fall" into this search engine. It is a little dated, but it gives links to just about any "theory" you might hear about 9/11.

9/11 Power Debunker (by google)

 

[BigAl]

In addition to being unable to watch a video over "a minute or so," 2 lines is too much text to warrant a response?

Is ergo aware that firefighters placed a transit on the building to measure it leaning?

An explosion inside a building that severs columns would not cause it to lean?

Carlitos didn't say anything about an explosion.

He didn't say anything about "severed columns."

If you'd read NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 1 Pages 299-304 you'd know what he was talking about.

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/NCSTAR1-9index.htm

 

[BigAl]

I wasn't discussing the issue of the FDNY's supposed decision that the building was "doomed", but whether the building was indeed doomed, and, if by fire, where were the fires?

Inside the building.

Read NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 1 Pages 299-304

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/NCSTAR1-9index.htm

 

[alienentity]

In addition to being unable to watch a video over "a minute or so," 2 lines is too much text to warrant a response?

Is ergo aware that firefighters placed a transit on the building to measure it leaning?

In addition, firefighters inside the building observed 'On the 8th or 9th floor, one of the group said he saw two elevator cars ejected from their shafts and in the hallway. Looking past the elevators, they could see a gaping hole in the south face from around the 6th to the 9th floors. They could see one floor below and two to three floors above that location. A lot of
the core walls were destroyed, and one individual reported that he saw columns hanging from the floor
above.'

The gaping hole is presumably the SW corner, or perhaps it was the 'gash' described by Boyle. In either case, they described columns hanging...
Sounds like a candidate for the building lean.

AS to the extent of fires, FDNY were not able to inspect the building past the time listed above, as the building was creaking, and heard a loud noise - after which point they wisely got out.
A Deputy Chief (not named in the NIST report) was quoted as saying 'that the stairway he was in was filling with smoke and that there was a lot of fire inside the building'

'A lot of fire' is consistent with other observations of 'fully involved', and is consistent with the pictures and videos of the South face.

The trolling activity of Ergo is not worth responding to - he does not respect others enough to engage in an adult discussion.

 

[ergo]

Inside the building.

So are these firefighters, quoted in wtc7lies, a bedunker site, lying?

1. We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors. –FDNY Lieutenant Robert Larocco

2. ...Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down. –FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn

3. I walked out and I got to Vesey and West, where I reported to Frank [Cruthers]. He said, we’re moving the command post over this way, that building’s coming down. At this point, the fire was going virtually on every floor, heavy fire and smoke that really wasn’t bothering us when we were searching because it was being pushed southeast and we were a little bit west of that. I remember standing just where West and Vesey start to rise toward the entrance we were using in the World Financial Center. There were a couple of guys standing with me and a couple of guys right at the intersection, and we were trying to back them up – and here goes 7. It started to come down and now people were starting to run. –FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti

4. All morning I was watching 7 World Trade burn, which we couldn't do anything about because it was so much chaos looking for missing members. –Firefighter Marcel Klaes

5. When the building came down it was completely involved in fire, all forty-seven stories.
–FDNY Assistant Chief Harry Myers (Smith, Dennis, 2002. Report From Ground Zero: The Heroic Story of the Rescuers at the World Trade Center. New York: Penguin Putnam. p. 160)

15. And 7 World Trade was burning up at the time. We could see it. ... the fire at 7 World Trade was working its way from the front of the building northbound to the back of the building. There was no way there could be water put on it, because there was no water in the area. –Firefighter Eugene Kelty Jr.

17. "There's number Seven World Trade. That's the OEM bunker." We had a snicker about that. We looked over, and it's engulfed in flames and starting to collapse.

 

[T.A.M.]

I am confused...is the world upside down or something.

Is Ergo now arguing in favor of WTC7 being fully involved in fire? Are people here arguing with him on this?

Now I am confused.

TAM

 

[BigAl]

So are these firefighters, quoted in wtc7lies, a bedunker site, lying?

Huh? Those fires are inside the building.

 

[carlitos]

I am imagining this "answering a question with a strawman/unrelated question" as it might play out in a marriage or in the workplace. I'm guessing that it's ineffective.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Ergo, where do you think fire fuels in buildings are located?

 

[ergo]

Huh? Those fires are inside the building.

So the quotes above describe fires inside the building? What evidence do you have to support this statement?

What about this comment, from the same site?

"I had a clear view down Washington Street of Building Seven, which was on the north edge of the site. All forty-seven stories were on fire. It was wild. The MPs said the building was going to collapse. I said, "Nah, I don't know." And then all of a sudden I watched the building shake like an earthquake hit it, and the building came down." –Ground Zero Superintendant Charlie Vitchers (Glenn Stout, Charles Vitchers, and Robert Gray. Nine Months at Ground Zero. Scribner, 2006 15-16)

Viewing the north face of WTC7, from that many blocks away, and he can see inside the building?

Your assertions are getting sillier by the second.

 

[ergo]

Ergo, where do you think fire fuels in buildings are located?

Golly, I don't know, Grizz.

 

[GlennB]

That's the SW corner, not the NW corner.

yeah sorry. He was getting me steamed up.

 

[BigAl]

So the quotes above describe fires inside the building? What evidence do you have to support this statement?

What about this comment, from the same site?



Viewing the north face of WTC7, from that many blocks away, and he can see inside the building?

Your assertions are getting sillier by the second.

You are missing a bunch of fireman testimony about the fire. HERE ARE 40+.

40+ firemen that report fire and damage to WTC7. You can find their names and full-text transcripts via the links, below. 40 is most of the firemen working the WTC7 Fire, no firemen contradict these reports.

41 firemen mention severity of fire in WTC7
29 firemen mention damage to WTC7
31 firemen predict collapse​

Summary spreadsheet names & statements: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNGds_AjhkwP4V4RW9zTNH4GK3QezQ&cad=rja
Full text transcripts for those names: http://graphics8.nytimes.compackage...m/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessaccountsofwtc7fires

 

[ergo]

All the fire was inside the building, D'oh.

Big Al doesn't read too good.

I had a clear view down Washington Street of Building Seven, which was on the north edge of the site. All forty-seven stories were on fire. It was wild. The MPs said the building was going to collapse. I said, "Nah, I don't know." And then all of a sudden I watched the building shake like an earthquake hit it, and the building came down." –Ground Zero Superintendant Charlie Vitchers (Glenn Stout, Charles Vitchers, and Robert Gray. Nine Months at Ground Zero. Scribner, 2006 15-16)

 

[ergo]

All the fire was inside the building, some of it was visible from the exterior, some of it wasn't.

So these are all talking about interior fires:

1. We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors. –FDNY Lieutenant Robert Larocco

2. ...Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down. –FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn

3. I walked out and I got to Vesey and West, where I reported to Frank [Cruthers]. He said, we’re moving the command post over this way, that building’s coming down. At this point, the fire was going virtually on every floor, heavy fire and smoke that really wasn’t bothering us when we were searching because it was being pushed southeast and we were a little bit west of that. I remember standing just where West and Vesey start to rise toward the entrance we were using in the World Financial Center. There were a couple of guys standing with me and a couple of guys right at the intersection, and we were trying to back them up – and here goes 7. It started to come down and now people were starting to run. –FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti

4. All morning I was watching 7 World Trade burn, which we couldn't do anything about because it was so much chaos looking for missing members. –Firefighter Marcel Klaes

5. When the building came down it was completely involved in fire, all forty-seven stories.
–FDNY Assistant Chief Harry Myers (Smith, Dennis, 2002. Report From Ground Zero: The Heroic Story of the Rescuers at the World Trade Center. New York: Penguin Putnam. p. 160)

15. And 7 World Trade was burning up at the time. We could see it. ... the fire at 7 World Trade was working its way from the front of the building northbound to the back of the building. There was no way there could be water put on it, because there was no water in the area. –Firefighter Eugene Kelty Jr.

17. "There's number Seven World Trade. That's the OEM bunker." We had a snicker about that. We looked over, and it's engulfed in flames and starting to collapse.

Idiocy noted.

 

[BigAl]

So these are all talking about interior fires:



Idiocy noted.

40+ firemen that report fire and damage to WTC7. You can find their names and full-text transcripts via the links, below. 40 is most of the firemen working the WTC7 Fire, no firemen contradict these reports.

41 firemen mention severity of fire in WTC7
29 firemen mention damage to WTC7
31 firemen predict collapse

Summary spreadsheet names & statements: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNGds_AjhkwP4V4RW9zTNH4GK3QezQ&cad=rja
Full text transcripts for those names: http://graphics8.nytimes.compackage...m/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessaccountsofwtc7fires​

 

[alienentity]

Viewing WTC 7 from the NW, along Washington St would give a view of the smoke coming from the South face, so it makes sense that Vitchers would describe what he saw as 'all 47 floors'.

This view from the SW shows the wall of smoke pouring from virtually every window. Nobody ever went inside to check exactly where all those fires were, and NIST doesn't attempt to try to prove it - they don't need to actually.

ETA I'm going to venture that, describing the South face, at least what's visible, I'd agree that the building was indeed 'fully involved', that there does appear to be fire (as evidenced by smoke) on virtually every floor. I think that's a fair description. (hint: use the SW corner as the evaluation point for the floors involved - every visible one!)
I'll support FDNY statements to that effect. No problem.

 

[ergo]

Viewing WTC 7 from the NW, along Washington St would give a view of the smoke coming from the South face, so it makes sense that Vitchers would describe what he saw as 'all 47 floors'.

Actually, Washington St. continues south of the WTC site, so I was wrong. He was obviously speaking of the south face.

This view from the SW shows the wall of smoke pouring from virtually every window. Nobody ever went inside to check exactly where all those fires were, and NIST doesn't attempt to try to prove it - they don't need to actually.

Why is it so hard for you guys to produce a simple picture of these fires?