Will the internet survive energy contraction?

TFian said:
Excellent argument Lionking! You've really convinced me! Have you ever even read a book by Derrick Jensen? I doubt you even know who he is!
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If someone wrote that the sun revolved the sun, I can safely conclude he's an idiot without reading his book. If someone says the earth's carrying capacity is 400 million, ditto.
 
lionking said:
You really need to do some proper research and no rely on your druids and so on. I would like to see an authorative demographic projection showing anything other than a population reduction by about 2050.

As for China, you did know that the government is currently reviewing it's one child policy because of the serious problems of an aging and declining population (just like Japan's)? No I don't thing you did.
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Sure, just read some Paul Ehrlich.

Why would they want to reverse such a trend? That's foolish beyond belief. If it's going to stabilize naturally, let it.
 
lionking said:
If someone wrote that the sun revolved the sun, I can safely conclude he's an idiot without reading his book. If someone says the earth's carrying capacity is 400 million, ditto.
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He's certainly no idiot. His books are award winning, and he's well respected within his community.
 
TFian said:
Sure, just read some Paul Ehrlich.

Why would they want to reverse such a trend? That's foolish beyond belief. If it's going to stabilize naturally, let it.
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Do you understand the difficulties Japan is facing?

And Paul Ehrlich was wrong, demonstrably so. You must really get up to date. I mean, thinking that the world's population was going to continue to grow exponentially is really kindergarten stuff.
 
lionking said:
Do you understand the difficulties Japan is facing?
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No I don't, what difficulties are they facing?

lionking said:
And Paul Ehrlich was wrong, demonstrably so. You must really get up to date. I mean, thinking that the world's population was going to continue to grow exponentially is really kindergarten stuff.
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And it only takes a kindergarten student to realizes we're breeding out of control. @ Paul, I'm referring to his new stuff, not his old works.
 
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TFian said:
No I don't, what difficulties are they facing?



And it only takes a kindergarten student to realizes we're breeding out of control.
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Look it up yourself. Educate yourself. Population will peak around mid century and then decline. That doesn't mean there won't be challanges as far as energy and food production are concerned, but as has been pointed out many times in this thread, these challanges will almost certainly be met.
 
lionking said:
Population will peak around mid century and then decline.
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If that's true, GOOD!

lionking said:
That doesn't mean there won't be challanges as far as energy and food production are concerned, but as has been pointed out many times in this thread, these challanges will almost certainly be met.
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The challenges will be met, just not how you think so ;)
 
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TFian said:
Paul Ehrlich does. As does Derrick Jensen. Derrick has theorized our carrying capacity is probably only 400 million.
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Paul Ehrlich predicted that the world would be engulfed in cataclysmic famine by 1985 at the very latest.

Let's see.... Nope.
 
TFian said:
And it only takes a kindergarten student to realizes we're breeding out of control.
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Who's this "we", Kemosabe?



See all those countries in light blue? They are below replacement rate. Their populations are either declining or heading for a decline later this century. Latest figures I have put the US slightly below replacement too.

(Image from Wikimedia Commons.)
 
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PixyMisa said:
Paul Ehrlich predicted that the world would be engulfed in cataclysmic famine by 1985 at the very latest.

Let's see.... Nope.
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No doubt he was WAY too optimistic with his predictions. He didn't account for higher-yielding grains, and how that spurred further population growth. But then again, there's been 300 million deaths since the book was published that were caused in large part by malnourishment and undernourishment, and global hunger is increasing.
 
Now, those countries in purple, they're pretty much screwed. Those are the trouble spots of the 21st century. Sub-Saharan Africa, Afghanistan, and Yemen.

Which, by strange coincidence, are all disaster areas right now.
 
TFian said:
No doubt he was WAY too optimistic
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

But then again, there's been 300 million deaths since the book was published that were caused in large part by malnourishment and undernourishment, and global hunger is increasing.
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Even were I to grant that claim, what does that have to do with global collapse?

Look at the map above.

All the countries in light blue and light green basically have things under control, and will continue to prosper. That covers most of the world.

If Africa collapses into screaming darkness that will be a bad thing for all of us, but it won't bring about the collapse of civilisation.
 
TFian said:
No doubt he was WAY too optimistic with his predictions.
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You are calling massive starvation and global castrophe an optimistic prediction? You really are a piece of work.

Tell you what? Come on back in 2012, when you reckon cars will be off freeways and chaos will rule and we can then compare notes. Until then I will ignore your posts born out of ignorance.
 
lionking said:
You are calling massive starvation and global castrophe an optimistic prediction? You really are a piece of work.

Tell you what? Come on back in 2012, when you reckon cars will be off freeways and chaos will rule and we can then compare notes. Until then I will ignore your posts born out of ignorance.
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Sure thing, I'll mark it in my calender ;)
 
PixyMisa said:
Look at the map above.

All the countries in light blue and light green basically have things under control, and will continue to prosper. That covers most of the world.

If Africa collapses into screaming darkness that will be a bad thing for all of us, but it won't bring about the collapse of civilisation.
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Well even if that's true, it doesn't negate the other aspects of the collapse we've discussed, nor does it prove industrialization improves literacy, education, women's rights, etc. Where I'm from completely disproves those notions. (Kerala)
 
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