Hello from a non-skeptic

[23_Tauri]

Are you sure Agatha? I'm sure I bought and ate a packet only last week.

I knew someone would make that joke! I must be psychic.

Nah, I'm just predictable. Either that, or we're game on for the JREF Million Dollar Minstrel Challenge!

 

[wareagle]

I don't expect to find a psychic. I only consider the question "is this a psychic?" when someone has already made the claim of being one. In that case, that person invariably will tell me what I should look for, and so far, invariably nothing like that has been found.

Maytag and LG both offer scientifically engineered appliances that claim they are intuitive.

 

[Robert Oz]

I think its perfect-ably acceptable that someone should expect a psychic to produce or accomplish something rather than trying to rework consciousness as we know it to fit their world view.

This is almost right. In fact, it is almost the same argument many of us have been making in this thread all along. It should read:

"It is perfectly acceptable that someone should expect a psychic to produce or accomplish something before trying to rework consciousness as we know it to fit their world view."

In other words, we need to confirm that the powers claimed by the psychic actually exist before trying to rework physics to fit the belief that psychic powers are real.

The fact is, to date, no psychic has been able to pass properly controlled, objective testing. In the absence of any evidence that a passed test would provide, the default position must be that psychic powers do not exist.

 

[Akhenaten]

Maytag and LG both offer scientifically engineered appliances that claim they are intuitive.

That's the science of 'marketing' in action. Or so I believe.

 

[ThatSoundAgain]

That's not a convincing argument. someone has to be willing to suspend their own beliefs. I can make a convincing arguement but I might not be able to offer any concrete evidence.

Well, any standard for a convincing argument would include convincing evidence.

It says what it says. You can't take your perception of the world and impose it on common perception and expect everyone to accept it when they can't see it. No one can fully know the perceptions of others. Again one is insisting the one should see what can't be seen. Can you SEE how I view things. No not unless I gouged my eyes out and handed them to you.

Hmm. I'm having real trouble understanding what you're getting at, gory turns of phrase or not. Sorry.

But I can say that I'm not very concerned about "everyone" or "the common perception". I'm merely saying that if you go around claiming that "psychic phenomena" exist without bothering to explain what that even means, you won't be convincing anyone either. Because it is a null statement.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Maytag and LG both offer scientifically engineered appliances that claim they are intuitive.

What, you're a salesperson too? What is up with this thread?

 

[tsig]

What is science looking for? What are you looking for. What would be your expectation in a psychic? Maybe a false expectation has been put out there? by who?

If there are any false expectations then they are being put out by the psychics themselves. Right here in this thread we have a person claiming to be a reincarnation of bonny Prince Charley and numerous others characters throughout history.

 

[wareagle]

I can only answer that on a personal level. Is that acceptable. With the understanding I'm not attempting to impose a belief system on you but simply how I ,personally, experience existence?

Well before I entered this discussion I began having a problems with the word psychic. Based on what the media is putting out there, what other 'psychics' are claiming and failing at. Psychism ideally should make your life better. It should provide SOMETHING. It should accomplish something. It makes MY life better. It is a great deal to do with perceptions.

Yes I know things, quite frequently, for no apparent reason. Can I always do it on demand?. I don't know, I never tried. I would say not, sometimes I'm in a pissy mood and can't go there.

Do I think I'm holy, a saint or have some speical connection to god.
No.

Will I promise you something i'm not sure I can deliver. No. If I know I can do something I will promise to deliver it.

Can I accurately predict lottery numbers. Yes. I don't do it psychically though. I find that helpful in my existence.

I also realize that sometimes I logically conclude some things that has nothing to do with what i percieve on an intuitive level. I am very smart in a IQ sort of way. This impresses people sometimes to think I'm psychic when my logical mind is just working very very fast. I try to tell people that but they prefer to hold the belief its a supernatural power. It does not matter what I say to them they will insist otherwise. What do I do with that?

I view the world as an illusionary place. This makes my life much better as far as health and finances so I feel I have accomplished something. I can't impose that on someone they have to be willing do do that themselves. Can I show someone how to manifest whatever they need with very limited amounts of physcial influence. Yes IF they are willing. If people don't feel safe doing that they won't go there. I respect that.

I work from a spiritual place. My spirit has more meaning and accomplishment than the physical world. The physical world appears fixed and rigid but I feel it is not. The spiritual world has no boundries. Understand I'm not talking about the world of dead people and spirits. I'm talking about the world of My personal persona or psyche. I find that to be illusionary as well. I percieve what you call the real world not to be logician but insane. I find nothing logical about what people take for granted. I find nothing logical in the world that everyone seems to believe. Frex: That America is the land of the free. If it is why do we have to pay so much to live here?

My focus is on mind projection. If I want to alter circumstances in my life i alter what I am projecting. Perception.

Can I cure someone of cancer. If they are willing to alter their mind projection. Have I done with success. Yes. Did I did do anything. Not really. They did it. I may have facilitated this by telling them how. This is called psychic healing, but it takes the facilitator and the recipient to make it work. Could I heal someone through faith or the power of my mind. If I were in a movie I could. If someone holds the same perception that the world is illusionary a cure will happen very fast. This has happened. I don't find that unusual. You might.

Those in the normal world make little agreements that shape their life. Everyone does it, I hear everyone speak in terms of the agreements they've made.

I don't do that or rather I make agreeable agreements. If this world is illusionary I want it to be a nice illusion without stress.

If a person is willing I can show them through their perception their mind projection is providing. They can then have evidence that I am doing things in unusual ways. Impossible ways. No . If I show you how to do it and you do it will you still say its impossible? I can't expect anyone to accept or beleive anything unless they experienced it themselves.

Can I talk to dead people. Everyone can. Open your mouth and speak to them. Why would you want to ? I don't know maybe someone finds comfort in that. If you hear a response that is a different matter. I view the dead as just another segment of an illusion world .


If you want to know how I've come to the conclusion the world is illusionary, not dependable, that is a different discussion. It's about perception though.

Like everything else.

Am I different. yes. Am I doing anything special. I don't think so.

Am I psychic. I don't know its a matter of perception. The perception is that I'm doing something unusual to those who have a solid belief in reality as being concrete.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Well, the next phase on these boards would traditionally be "prove it". If you can show us evidence of perceptions of the kind you describe, most of us will be happy to come over to your way of thinking and learn from you.

Can you do something like that? For example, if I hash a number and post the hash here, can you tell me what the number is? Can you tell me which of my grandparents are still alive? Can you PM me the winning numbers for this week's Finnish lottery?

 

[wareagle]

If there are any false expectations then they are being put out by the psychics themselves. Right here in this thread we have a person claiming to be a reincarnation of bonny Prince Charley and numerous others characters throughout history.

Yes they are. If someone wants to think they are Prince Charley it doesn't affect me. If they think they can accomplish something with that, then I wish them well. What they think they can accomplish out in the public with that i have no idea. What do you think?



This is what i think of as a psychic event. Or a synchoronatic event however you prefer. I was holding a book one day about debunking. I hadn't started reading it yet. A medium was imposing her belief on me that she thought "I was Cleopatra in a previous life." . At the same time I dropped the book and it fell open to a chapter on reincarnation that was entitled "YOU ARE NOT CLEOPATRA"

I picked it up and showed it to her since psychism is all about 'sign's and symbolism. She got angry.

Profound? no. A psychic event? (shrug) A subconscious event? Maybe. Funny? Yes.

I think so anyway.

 

[AdMan]

wareagle, I wish you'd use your amazingly high IQ to improve your vocabulary, spelling and grammar. It would make your load of BS a bit more understandable (though no less BS).

 

[Garrette]

So you're:

1. Highly intelligent
2. Highly spiritual
3. Psychic
4. Capable of wondrous things

And incapable of demonstrating any of it, because if something doesn't work it means the person you were working with didn't let go of his beliefs.

Got it.

 

[Akhenaten]

<snip>

Am I psychic. I don't know its a matter of perception.

No you aren't and perception has nothing to do with it. There's no such thing as a psychic.

The perception is that I'm doing something unusual to those who have a solid belief in reality as being concrete.

My perception is that you need to research 'subject' and 'predicate'.

 

[EHocking]

...I percieve what you call the real world not to be logician but insane. I find nothing logical about what people take for granted. I find nothing logical in the world that everyone seems to believe. Frex: That America is the land of the free. If it is why do we have to pay so much to live here?...

One of the reasons you may find this illogical is that you have totally misinterpreted the phrase "land of the free" and it's meaning.

I'm not even USAan and know that it does not mean you don't have to pay to live there.


Perhaps it is not our perception of the world that is the problem...

 

[Lothian]

Can I accurately predict lottery numbers. Yes.

Shall we have a test or would you prefer to find an excuse?

 

[Resume]

Can I cure someone of cancer. If they are willing to alter their mind projection. Have I done with success. Yes. Did I did do anything. Not really. They did it. I may have facilitated this by telling them how.

If you prey on someone with this BS, I hope you are prosecuted to the fullest extent.

 

[desertgal]

Will I promise you something i'm not sure I can deliver. No. If I know I can do something I will promise to deliver it.

So? Promising to deliver something means nothing. It's the delivery that counts.

 

[dafydd]

a solid belief in reality as being concrete.

What is that supposed to mean? It sounds like new age waffle to me.Could you give me the winning numbers for next Saturday's Belgian State Lottery? An excuse will do just as well.

 

[aggle-rithm]

many psychics walk around never knowing they are psychic because a bizarre fable has been created as a standard for psychism.

The bizarre fable is that there is such a thing as psychics when there is no evidence for it.

 

[Robert Oz]

Well before I entered this discussion I began having a problems with the word psychic. Based on what the media is putting out there, what other 'psychics' are claiming and failing at. Psychism ideally should make your life better. It should provide SOMETHING. It should accomplish something. It makes MY life better. It is a great deal to do with perceptions.

You haven't really provided a definition here. It seems that you disagree with the common definition of the word 'psychic'. So, what exactly is it? Without a definition, you may as well say Ikroniumism should make your life better. It should accomplish something.

How do you define the word 'psychic'?

Yes I know things, quite frequently, for no apparent reason. Can I always do it on demand?. I don't know, I never tried. I would say not, sometimes I'm in a pissy mood and can't go there.

How do you eliminate the possibility that you're just guessing? Or cold reading without realising it?

Can I accurately predict lottery numbers. Yes. I don't do it psychically though. I find that helpful in my existence.

If you are not doing it psychically, how are you doing it?

Accurately predicting lottery numbers is certainly a testable claim. In fact it's a very easy claim to test (search the forum for the user name 'ferj').

I also realize that sometimes I logically conclude some things that has nothing to do with what i percieve on an intuitive level. I am very smart in a IQ sort of way. This impresses people sometimes to think I'm psychic when my logical mind is just working very very fast. I try to tell people that but they prefer to hold the belief its a supernatural power. It does not matter what I say to them they will insist otherwise. What do I do with that?

This sounds very much like you are acknowledging the fact that you are cold reading.

How do you define 'psychic' and what experiences have you had that you would consider psychic?

Can I show someone how to manifest whatever they need with very limited amounts of physcial influence. Yes IF they are willing.

Again, this seems like a testable claim.

My focus is on mind projection. If I want to alter circumstances in my life i alter what I am projecting. Perception.

Testable claim!

Can I cure someone of cancer. If they are willing to alter their mind projection. Have I done with success. Yes. Did I did do anything. Not really. They did it. I may have facilitated this by telling them how. This is called psychic healing, but it takes the facilitator and the recipient to make it work.

Testable claim and dangerous claim. I certainly hope you aren't trying to convince sick people that they don't need to take their illusory medicine!

They can then have evidence that I am doing things in unusual ways. Impossible ways. No . If I show you how to do it and you do it will you still say its impossible? I can't expect anyone to accept or beleive anything unless they experienced it themselves.

Wrong. We don't have to experience it for ourselves on a personal level. You seem to claim that you can change external factors in your life using only your mind.

Or are you saying you are just looking at things differently, and therefore the change is only in perception? In which case, it is not psychic at all, but just an attempt to have a positive outlook on life.

Am I psychic. I don't know its a matter of perception. The perception is that I'm doing something unusual to those who have a solid belief in reality as being concrete.

Without a definition, you are as psychic as I am ikroniumistic.