The Punishment of Gaza

[yairhol]

'...There’s a whole machinery of brainwashing in Israel which really accompanies each of us from early childhood, and I’m a product of this machinery as much as anyone else. [We are taught] a few narratives that it’s very hard to break. That we Israelis are the ultimate and only victims. That the Palestinians are born to kill, and their hatred is irrational. That the Palestinians are not human beings like us? ...'

I was probably sick on all those days when they supposedly taught this. Strange that I can't think of a single other Israeli I know who fits the description above.

 

[Thunder]

I'm not making excuses I'm just choosing who is more appropriate to determine what Palestinian foundation documents mean....and control and determine in what way they are amended....Palestinians....or guys on the internet?

so, guys on the internet are not allowed to point out clear inconsistencies in regards to PLO behavior with their Charter?

folks at JREF are no longer able to critic or criticize government actions?

 

[The Fool]

so, guys on the internet are not allowed to point out clear inconsistencies in regards to PLO behavior with their Charter?

folks at JREF are no longer able to critic or criticize government actions?

good grief...who said you can't point out what you believe or critisize something??

its just that you don't get to call your opinion fact.

The charter was amended all the major players at the time accepted this, get over it.

 

[Cain]

I highly doubt Israelis have created an oppressive, Apartheid state... but if they did, I'm sure they had a good reason.

 

[Thunder]

its just that you don't get to call your opinion fact.

The charter was amended all the major players at the time accepted this, get over it.

if the charter was amended, where is the amended charter?

I will be convinced that the charter is amended when they publish it. sorry.

this is like saying that the American Constitution has been amended, even though the Senate and the House refused to vote on it.

 

[MaGZ]

The oppression and persecution of the Palestinians by Israel has long been documented, yet is still denied by the supporters of the apartheid state. The Israeli state is desperate to stop the world from hearing about the human rights abuses they commit on a daily basis against the Palestinians. Now you can read the testimony of an Israeli about the facts of those human rights abuses.

The book is 'The Punishment of Gaza' by Gideon Levy. It is published by Verso Books and is available for £8.99p.

I urge people to buy the book and learn what has been happening for themselves.

Mr levy was interviewed recently by the Independent newspaper in the UK. The article can be seen here: - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-israel-or-just-the-most-heroic-2087909.html

That article includes this appalling fact.
'...He reported that day on a killing, another of the hundreds he has documented over the years. As twenty little children pulled up in their school bus at the Indira Gandhi kindergarten, their 20 year-old teacher, Najawa Khalif, waved to them – and an Israel shell hit her and she was blasted to pieces in front of them. He arrived a day later, to find the shaking children drawing pictures of the chunks of her corpse. The children were “astonished to see a Jew without weapons. All they had ever seen were soldiers and settlers.”...'

In a really disturbing revelation - that is corroborated by the posts of some people on JREF - he tells the Independent: -
'...There’s a whole machinery of brainwashing in Israel which really accompanies each of us from early childhood, and I’m a product of this machinery as much as anyone else. [We are taught] a few narratives that it’s very hard to break. That we Israelis are the ultimate and only victims. That the Palestinians are born to kill, and their hatred is irrational. That the Palestinians are not human beings like us? ...'

Let me repeat that last point. Israelis are taught that the Palestinians are not human like them. Where in history do you find that untermensch claim being made about entire groups of people? Throughout history that type of official degradadtion is designed to enable the most disgusting acts of inhumanity to be carried out on the targets of the demonisation. And it is being used by descendants of people who have repeatedly suffered from the same appalling demonisation. Israel is repeating that disgusting demonisation programme.

Mr Levy goes on to tell the world about how the IDF has attempted to kill him and how Netanyahu bragged abut destroying the Oslo 'peace' talks A man supposedly now engaged in trying to find 'peace'.

'...Now, he says, he is convinced it was “a scam” from the start, doomed to fail. How does he know? “There is a very simple litmus test for any peace talks. A necessity for peace is for Israel to dismantle settlements in the West Bank. So if you are going to dismantle settlements soon, you’d stop building more now, right? They carried on building them all through Oslo. And today, Netanyahu is refusing to freeze construction, the barest of the bare minimum. It tells you all you need.”

He says Netanyahu has – like the supposedly more left-wing alternatives, Ehud Barak and Tzipip Livni – always opposed real peace talks, and even privately bragged about destroying the Oslo process. In 1997, during his first term as Israeli leader, he insisted he would only continue with the talks if a clause was added saying Israel would not have to withdraw from undefined “military locations” – and he was later caught on tape boasting: “Why is that important? Because from that moment on I stopped the Oslo accords.” If he bragged about “stopping” the last peace process, why would he want this one to succeed?...'

The supporters of the apartheid state of Israel have shown that will do everything they can to stop you finding out the truth. In turn and as witnessed on this site they

1/ Accuse people who highlight the truth as anti-semitic. The desperation is evident already in that very common tactic.
2/ They will try to demonise those who tell the truth. How do they do that? Rather than discuss the topic of the thread, they try to derail threads about Israel. They call people names. They lie about them and about what they say. They simply cannot bear the truth about what Israel is doing to be highlighted and use some of the same tactics endured by Mr Levy on this site. You can watch this happening on almost any thread about Israel right here on JREF. It can be very enlightening to see how desperate the supporters of Israel get in their attempts to stop debate about this important topic.

To see it in operation simply carry on reading this thread. I will highlight it every time it occurs.

For the avoidance of doubt this thread is also about the behaviour of the site supporters of the apartheid state of Israel and its human rights abuses.

The state of Israel and all their supporters on JREF simply cannot bear you finding out the truth. By reading Mr Levy's book you will find out what they don't want you to know.

I think you should use “Jewish supremacy” instead of “apartheid” here.

 

[Finn McR]

What Controversy?

Well, gosh, though I don't live in the region, it seems that the answers are easy! First, decide when, specifically, to start ownership claims (going back a couple of thousands of years). Second, decide who's divinely-inspired religious persecution is the right one. Third, count up the wins and losses. Fourth, total up the scores!!

(For those who confine themselves to a very modern era, it can seem terribly unfair... ...Ottoman Empire-> WWI -> British Mandate -> questionable Jewish Nationalist/Zionist settler influx -> rise of local nationialist Arab states -> End of Mandate/ aggression by local Arab states and proto-Palestinian Arabs who don't want the recent influx of Jews to get a chance at statehood on their land/"on their land" (depending on position) -> repulse by storied under-weaponed, under-manned Jews of well-supplied local Arabs -> loss of "promised" territory to proto-Palestinians (ok, as well as the territory that they expected to get from the demographic invaders...yes, the Jews) -> repeat ad-nauseam with shifting balance of power...)

There is a nice spark of irony in that now Israelis are faced with the problem of demographic invaders (the inhabitants of absorbed areas and growing Israeli Arab populations) let alone the pressure of "right-of-return" groups hoping to scuttle any peace agreements (since it is just about beyond belief that Israelis will extend a "right-of-return" for those same demographic reasons).

If this glib summary comes out seeming biased, I apologize. I think that trying to apportion blame to either side is a lot past the point. It will take some big risks on at least on part to achieve some kind of peace in the region.

 

[danrush]

The reality is that the Zionists will never accept peace until they have stolen every last piece of the occupied territories and cleared every last Palestinian from that land

Your continued racist behavior is quite disturbing. I can tell you don't give a damn what happens to the Palestinians.

 

[danrush]

There is a nice spark of irony in that now Israelis are faced with the problem of demographic invaders (the inhabitants of absorbed areas and growing Israeli Arab populations) let alone the pressure of "right-of-return" groups hoping to scuttle any peace agreements (since it is just about beyond belief that Israelis will extend a "right-of-return" for those same demographic reasons).

And isn't it nice how the "Palestinian supporters" never talk about the suicide teenage bombers or the weapons supplied by the caring masses of Arab fascist terrorism?

No it wasn't cleansing. They left because their buddies told them they could be back very soon, and cleans the Jews.

Had there been cleansing there would be no Arab Israeli citizens. There sure as hell are no Jewish Palestinians, nor Saudis.

The Arabs did plenty of cleansing..under the leadership of that rat fascist bastard the Grand Mufti.

 

[Finn McR]

And isn't it nice how the "Palestinian supporters" never talk about the suicide teenage bombers or the weapons supplied by the caring masses of Arab fascist terrorism?

No, it is not nice, but neither is it ironic. You miss another point that I *feel* to be correct, but might be mistaken about: your rhetoric (as well as many others') seems to imply that you can count up and weigh the wrongs on both sides and come out with a winner. Show me the math, and I will go along. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a case study in moral ambiguity.

 

[The Fool]

if the charter was amended, where is the amended charter?

stupid question....answered probably 10 or 15 times now.
you have seemingly enormous problems with the words amended and redrafted.

I will be convinced that the charter is amended when they publish it. sorry.

its a deal....until then you are free to continue to not be convinced.

this is like saying that the American Constitution has been amended, even though the Senate and the House refused to vote on it.

well, thats for the americans to decide isn't it...

here are some people who say that the 14th ammendment to the US constitution is invalid and reeely reely never happened....Like you, they are convinced they are correct and the fact that all the people that matter accept its been amended doesn't matter at all.

http://www.sweetliberty.org/fourteenth.amend.htm



its amended, get over it.

 

[WildCat]

here are some people who say that the 14th ammendment to the US constitution is invalid and reeely reely never happened....Like you, they are convinced they are correct and the fact that all the people that matter accept its been amended doesn't matter at all.

http://www.sweetliberty.org/fourteenth.amend.htm



its amended, get over it.

Nice example! Yes, those who think the 14th Amendment is invalid are just as delusional as those who think the PNC was amended.

 

[Skeptic]

In truth the single most racially (since many equate religions with race) bigoted cultures on the planet are Arab Muslims.

"First things" just wrote an article about Christians in the ME. You've got one guess what is the only country in the middle east with a growing number of Christians. In the rest of it, Muslims hostility is making Christians emigrate or convert or hide their religion.

 

[Skeptic]

Ottoman Empire-> WWI -> British Mandate -> questionable Jewish Nationalist/Zionist settler influx

Notice how of all the people there, the one group considered "questionable" are the Jews?

 

[The Fool]

Nice example! Yes, those who think the 14th Amendment is invalid are just as delusional as those who think the PNC was amended.

you believe Clinton was delusional? Have you subscribed to the BeAChooser school?

love the way you have a need to demonise those you disagree with ......"delusional" LOL......

 

[WildCat]

you believe Clinton was delusional? Have you subscribed to the BeAChooser school?

love the way you have a need to demonise those you disagree with ......"delusional" LOL......

I think Clinton was desperately looking for a legacy of an Israel-Palestine peace.

Perhaps if he had succeeded they actually would have amended the PNC.

 

[The Fool]

I think Clinton was desperately looking for a legacy of an Israel-Palestine peace.

Perhaps if he had succeeded they actually would have amended the PNC.

that wasn't the question....the question was if he was delusional as you claim all who accept the amendment are delusional. Do you want to make him an exception to your rule? any others on the exception list with him?

 

[WildCat]

that wasn't the question....the question was if he was delusional as you claim all who accept the amendment are delusional. Do you want to make him an exception to your rule? any others on the exception list with him?

I think anyone who thinks the PNC is amended as of today is delusional. Maybe back then Clinton actually thought they were going to amend it.

Once again, it cannot be amended by decree. No more than a US President can enter into a treaty by himself.

A secret amendment isn't really an amendment, is it?

 

[The Fool]

I think anyone who thinks the PNC is amended as of today is delusional. Maybe back then Clinton actually thought they were going to amend it.

Once again, it cannot be amended by decree. No more than a US President can enter into a treaty by himself.

A secret amendment isn't really an amendment, is it?

how many times do you estimate you will have to claim it before it becomes true?

and no....maybe what he thought was going to happen in the future doesn't matter when he, and all the other major players at the time accepted it was amended. If you believe he had qualifiers attached to his acceptance can you show some evidence of them.....otherwise its just more fog and mirrors and straw clutching.


whats it like to be one of the few in the world who are not delusional?

 

[WildCat]

how many times do you estimate you will have to claim it before it becomes true?

and no....maybe what he thought was going to happen in the future doesn't matter when he, and all the other major players at the time accepted it was amended. If you believe he had qualifiers attached to his acceptance can you show some evidence of them.....otherwise its just more fog and mirrors and straw clutching.


whats it like to be one of the few in the world who are not delusional?

Dude, that was 15 years ago. And in all that time, they couldn't be bothered with, you know, writing down this new amendment?

Or is it one of those double-secret amendments?