Lothian
should be banned
Thomas Arnold. Thomas Arnold. Thomas Arnold. The name rings a bell. Thomas Arnold, Where have I head that name?You've got the right to your opinion just as these academics have the right to theirs:
From the article: The Resurrection: Fact or Fiction?
1. Roman History Scholar - Thomas Arnold -- Arnold wrote the three-volume History of Rome and held the chair of modern history and Oxford University. He was well acquainted with the value of evidence in establishing historical facts. This great scholar wrote:
"I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than the great sign which God hath given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."10.
Got it.
Oxford historian Thomas Arnold , the author of the 3 volume "History of Rome" whom I mentioned about 6 months ago in other threads said the following:
"The evidence for our Lord’s life and death and resurrection may be, and often has been, shown to be satisfactory; it is good according to the common rules for distinguishing good evidence from bad. Thousands and tens of thousands of persons have gone through it piece by piece, as carefully as every judge summing up a most important cause. I myself have done it many times over, not to persuade others, but to satisfy myself. I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead" (ref.7, pp.425-426).
"Professor Thomas Arnold, former chair of history at Oxford, and author of the famous volumes, History of Rome, was skillfully educated in the study of historical facts. Professor Arnold, stated, "I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."
You call it fantasy; Thomas Arnold of Oxford calls it history, and Dr. Simon Greenleaf of Harvard calls it legal evidence.
-Oxford historian Thomas Arnold (who wrote the 3 volume "History of Rome") and his belief that Jesus' life and resurrection was proved by more historical evidence than any fact in history up to that point.
Thomas Arnold of Oxford and author of the 3 volume "History of Rome" didn't say there is better and more historical evidence for Jesus (and the resurrection) then for any fact in history (up to that point) for the heck of it.
Thomas Arnold of Oxford (author of the 3 Volume History of Rome) and Sir William M. Ramsay had enough evidence for their Christian beliefs, I'm sorry you don't.
"Professor Thomas Arnold, former chair of history at Oxford, and author of the famous volumes, History of Rome, was skillfully educated in the study of historical facts. Professor Arnold, stated:
"I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."
Thomas Arnold (of Oxford) wrote a 3 volume book on the history of Rome. His statement was:
"I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."
Originally Posted by DOC
Oxford professor Thomas Arnold and the author of the 3 Volume "History of Rome" would disagree, in fact he said there was more historical evidence for the life and resurrection of Jesus Christ than any other fact in history up to the point he said it. I think a problem in this thread is a lot of people don't understand what "historical" evidence means.
So what do I think of your Thomas Arnold evidence?
I think these people sum it up the worth of Thomas Arnold better than I could.
As usual, your penchant for only quoting small snippets from a post (which does occasionally have its place) undercuts the ACTUAL context of the point being made; as surely as Shirley Sherrod was smeared by Breitbart's and Fox "News'" antics.
The point being made was that the writings allegedly based on Josephus' works only date back to the 11th century Christian Monk Scribes, and that even if Josephus had written those very words, he didn't have the Extraordinary Evidence to back up the Extraordinary Claims of Jesus' resurrection.
The very same can be said for Professor Thomas Arnold. As good as the rest of his work may have been, his claims for Jesus' Divinity and Resurrection are likewise unsupported by the necessary evidence.
GB
Arnold is also famously known for supporting religious education over scientific.
He is famously quoted as writing:
"Rather than have it [physical sciences] the principal thing in my son's mind, I would gladly have him think that the sun went round the earth, and that the stars were so many spangles set in the bright blue firmament."
Yup. He would rather people believe known lies and be Christian than know truth.
Not a very reliable source when it comes to religion, is he DOC?
But it gets better.
if you go to the book, Life and Correspondence of Thomas Arnold (7th ed) in google books and search for Greenhill. Go to page 376.
You'll find the complete source of the quote. Which continues:
"Surely the one thing needful for a Christian and an Englishman to study is Christian and moral and political philosophy, and then we should see our way a little more clearly without falling into Judaism, or Toryism, or Jacobinism, or any other ism whatever."
That's the most disingenuous, nay, blatantly dishonest, post that I've ever read on this Forum. It's a disgrace, and if you think in any way that it represents the thoughts of honest and sincere christians then there is little hope that your words will ever find acceptance on either side of the theological fence.
Do you truly believe there have been no advances in the study of history since the time of Thomas Arnold?
Have you deliberately ignored this post by Waterman?
If I may be permitted to quote myself:
The staggering thing (well, perhaps not to those who've followed this thread) is that my reply is from over a year ago. It wasn't the first time DOC had referenced Thomas Arnold or Simon Greenleaf, and it wasn't the last (October and November, last year). And yet he keeps coming back with discredited arguments. It's as if he can't actually read anything that disagrees with his worldview.
<sigh> You think it's been long enough since you last appealed to this authority that you think we've forgotten about what was said last time?
Interesting you should mention him, though, since he is an example of someone who existed, and who also appears as a character in a work of fiction. By your logic, though, everything written about him in Tom Brown's Schooldays really happened.
As dafydd said almost exactly one year ago when you brought Thomas Arnold up yet again.
all over again......Sometimes I get the strangest feeling of deja vu.............
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I win!