The Stimulus Seems to have failed

BeAChooser said:
...
We are bordering on that happening.
Click to expand...

Well, economists define "recession" and "depression" with the value of hindsight. So they really don't help us know if we are "going into a depression".

We certainly have existing a near complete absence of trust in the government from the business community, an aversion to investing in Tbills and the strock market in favor of commodities, and a growing like for offshore investments instead of within the country. These are all the direct result of Obama's anti-business attitudes and comments.

Well of course except when business plays his semi-fascist games subserviently.

And ultimately the existence of recession, depression etc is based on the attitudes of people and the decisions on money and investments they make with those attitudes.

To put this in simple terms, if the government spends a trillion (they did) and I react by moving way to the conservative side in business decisions and investments (I and everyone I know did) there could easily be a net effect of zero.

If the government spends a trillion and all the dumb yokels in the population say to each other "Gee everythings going to be wonderful again" and they commence spending like whores who stole sailor's billfolds at the dock the last night, well, then that economy expands and is "stimulated".

Of course actually it's just inflated.

The former case is what we have and it's a rational response by the people to irrational government actions.

I like rational responses.
 
mhaze said:
If the government spends a trillion and all the dumb yokels in the population say to each other "Gee everythings going to be wonderful again" and they commence spending like whores who stole sailor's billfolds at the dock the last night, well, then that economy expands and is "stimulated".
Click to expand...

Actually that doesn't appear to be the case with many major indicators (including consumer confidence) showing little tangible improvement over the past eight months in the USA.

That said, what is your alternate programme to provide the stimulus apparently still required to improve the leading US economic indicators?
 
mhaze said:
Well, economists define "recession" and "depression" with the value of hindsight. So they really don't help us know if we are "going into a depression".

We certainly have existing a near complete absence of trust in the government from the business community, an aversion to investing in Tbills and the strock market in favor of commodities, and a growing like for offshore investments instead of within the country. These are all the direct result of Obama's anti-business attitudes and comments.

Well of course except when business plays his semi-fascist games subserviently.

And ultimately the existence of recession, depression etc is based on the attitudes of people and the decisions on money and investments they make with those attitudes.

To put this in simple terms, if the government spends a trillion (they did) and I react by moving way to the conservative side in business decisions and investments (I and everyone I know did) there could easily be a net effect of zero.
If the government spends a trillion and all the dumb yokels in the population say to each other "Gee everythings going to be wonderful again" and they commence spending like whores who stole sailor's billfolds at the dock the last night, well, then that economy expands and is "stimulated".

Of course actually it's just inflated.

The former case is what we have and it's a rational response by the people to irrational government actions.

I like rational responses.
Click to expand...

Which is why it is a better idea to target relief to the poorer as they would be more likely to spend. There is a difference in $500 for someone on $25k and on $100k.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/10/AR2010091006374.html?sub=AR

Americans have good reason not to believe in Obamanomics

… snip …

Democrats who say that another stimulus is necessary for job creation but who dare not utter the word "stimulus" are sending three depressing messages: The $862 billion stimulus did not work; the public so loathes the word that another stimulus will not happen; therefore prosperity is not "just around the corner," as Herbert Hoover supposedly said (but did not). Consumers and businesses are responding to those messages by heeding Polonius's advice in "Hamlet": "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." Hoover -- against whom Democrats, those fountains of fresh ideas, have been campaigning for 78 years -- is again being invoked as a terrible warning about the wages of sin. Sin is understood by liberals as government austerity, which is understood as existing levels of government spending, whatever they are, whenever. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner recently said that Germans favoring reduced rather than increased state spending sounded "a little bit like Hoover." Well.

Real per capita federal expenditures almost doubled between 1929, Hoover's first year as president, and 1932, his last. David Kennedy, in "Freedom from Fear," the volume in the Oxford history of the American people that deals with the Depression, writes of Hoover:

"He nearly doubled federal public works expenditures in three years. Thanks to his prodding, the net stimulating effect of federal, state and local fiscal policy was larger in 1931 than in any subsequent year of the decade." Barack Obama has self-nullifying plans for stimulating the small-business sector that creates most new jobs. He has just endorsed tax relief for such businesses but opposes extension of the Bush tax cuts for high-income filers, who include small businesses with 48 percent of that sector's earnings. The stance of other Democrats seems to be that the Bush cuts were wicked in conception, reckless in execution -- and should be largely, and perhaps entirely, extended.

Does this increase anyone's confidence?
Click to expand...

:D
 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39154568

Bashing Bush and Boehner Won’t Work: Obamanomics Is the Real Problem

… snip …

Take a good look at the latest Wall Street Journal/NBC poll. It is very revealing on these points.

Voters were asked, if Republicans win control of Congress, will they return to the economic policies of George W. Bush, or will they have different ideas to deal with the economy? The response: 58 percent said different ideas, 35 percent said the policies of George W. Bush. Voters were then asked, if Democrats maintain control of Congress, will they continue with the economic policies of Barack Obama, or will they have different ideas on the economy? The response: 62 percent said the policies of Obama, 32 percent said different ideas.

The poll also found that 56 percent of voters disapprove of Obama’s handling of the economy while 39 percent approve; that 71 percent disapprove of the job Congress is doing; and that 62 percent think it better that different parties control Congress and the White House. Overall, on the generic congressional vote, likely voters favor Republicans over Democrats 49 to 40 percent.

It’s the Obama agenda, especially on the economy, that has voters agitated. It’s a couple trillion dollars worth of big-government spending stimulus. It’s add-ons like cash for clunkers, cash for caulkers, and homebuyer tax credits. It’s the never-ending mortgage-default assistance. It’s two years of unemployment benefits. It’s more government-union bailouts for the states. It’s GM, Fannie, and Freddie. And of course, it’s Obamacare, which remains hugely unpopular.

… snip …

Republicans are far from perfect. But they have slowly developed a good message: Freeze spending, keep tax rates down, hold back the redistributionist government tide, help entrepreneurs, reward success, and create jobs and economic growth through the traditional American route of private-sector business, not government planning.

In the next seven weeks, if Republicans can stay on this message, they will win big.
Click to expand...
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100916...3luX2hlYWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA3VzaG9tZXNsb3N0dA

LOS ANGELES – Lenders took back more homes in August than in any month since the start of the U.S. mortgage crisis. … August makes the ninth month in a row that the pace of homes lost to foreclosure has increased on an annual basis.
Click to expand...

How's that stimulus working out, folks?

How many of those homes that the Obama adminstration is claiming were saved have really been saved?

And keep in mind it's government interference (CRA, Fannie/Freddie, etc) that created this situation.

And what's the Obama solution?

More interference, with Fannie still offering homes for as little as 3% down.

Is that not Stuck On Stupid?
 
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/75388

September 16, 2010

… snip …

In a video interview this week, White House Office of Science and Technology Director John P. Holdren told CNSNews.com that he would use the “free market economy” to implement the “massive campaign” he advocated along with Paul Ehrlich to “de-develop the United States.”
Click to expand...

Stuck on Stupid.
 
Oh and by the way … regarding the news about the poverty rate ...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2010-09-16-poverty-rate-income-numbers_N.htm

Robert Rector, a senior fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said the government spent about $20,000 per poor person this year, not counting Social Security.

"People got a lot of money, but the idea that giving people money was going to create employment has failed," he said. "We've had an unprecedented surge in welfare spending, on cash and goods in medical programs for low income and poor Americans.
Click to expand...
 
Unemployment benefits are not about creating jobs, but about helping people keep a roof over their heads and feeding families while the unemployed look for employment.
 
BeAChooser said:
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/75388

blah said:
September 16, 2010

… snip …

In a video interview this week, White House Office of Science and Technology Director John P. Holdren told CNSNews.com that he would use the “free market economy” to implement the “massive campaign” he advocated along with Paul Ehrlich to “de-develop the United States.”
Click to expand...

Stuck on Stupid.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much he's de-developed his own life currently - I mean why wait for the government to do it for you? And when they get around to de-develop the United States willthere be some exceptions for the planners - after all - these select few couldn't well do their planning and nudging and such if they too were de-developed. It's for the common good, after all.
 
From http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/75388
ooga booga said:
Holdren, Ehrlich and Daily wrote. “This is enough to say quite a lot about what needs to be faced up to eventually (a world of zero net physical growth), what should be done now (change unsustainable practices, reduce excessive material consumption, slow down population growth), and what the penalty will be for postponing attention to population limitation (lower well-being per person).”
Click to expand...

I know - maybe we can control the population by forcing women to have abortions and maybe put some sort of sterility drug in the water supply.
 
will there be some exceptions for the planners
Click to expand...

There always are, that's the benefit of being the planner. The rules (like paying taxes and limiting energy use) are really for the little people who need to be controlled.
 
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/how-a-poorer-america-is-holding-back-the-recovery/19636736

"The problem will get much worse long before it gets better," said Isabel Sawhill, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, who estimates the recession will ultimately add 10 million people and 6 million children to the poverty rolls in the coming years. "The poverty rate is likely to approach 16 percent before we are out of the woods and to remain high through the rest of this decade.
Click to expand...


http://hotair.com/archives/2010/09/...lets-spend-a-little-more-before-the-midterms/

Obama WH to Congress: Let’s spend a little more before the midterms!
Click to expand...


When will democrats learn and do what Van Buren did? Or Grover Cleveland? Or President Harding? Hmmmmmmmmmm?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom