Invitation to Derek Johnson to discuss his ideas

[DGM]

I had a brilliant sketch of how the main core columns were attached to the bedrock but I can't seem to find it now. You wouldm't happen to have a copy would you ?

Not off hand. Are you aware that this was not like some basement area?

How close to bedrock was the lowest (open) point at the time of the collapse? Where were the subway tunnels in relation to this point?

 

[Oystein]

It's too dangerous for me to talk to you TAM. I just get constant warnings when you report me. I may even be taking a risk talking to you now for some reason. So this will be my final direct communication with you. It was nice knowing you.

I don't think anybody ever received a warning or ban at JREF for providing evidence to support claims.

If that were so, only twoofers would be left

 

[tfk]

Derek ...?

Derek ...?

Gee, where'd ya go?


tom

 

[Oystein]

We wouldn't want that to happen...

So do something about it! Here is your chance to shine Disbelief:

1. ...How did NIST ever land on "The first APPEARED to be...." (re: WTC 7 steel (so FEMA stated but NIST now denies) sample in FEMA App C)? Explain this please.

2. ...Tell me your hypothesis on the apparent (so you imply) "no energy dissipation" through this WTC 7 column steel.

3. ...How did those WTC 7 floor 13 framing beams both buckle and push the intersecting 79 to 44 girder (with or without shear studs, depending on which NIST report you read) off its seat @ column 79? How exactly?

4. ...Help me to understand why NIST is withholding the WTC 7 contract and ancillary construction docs from Ron Brookman S.E., and is denying his FOIA attempts to procure 3,370 files that include: 1. Remaining input and all results files of the ANSYS (FEA) 16-story Case B collapse initiation model. 2. Break element source code, 3. ANSYS scripts files for the break elements, 4. Custom executable ANSYS file, 5. All spreadsheets and other supporting calculations used to develop floor connection failure modes and capacities, and 6. Connection models....why withhold all this?

5. ...And what were the fractions of WTC 7 metal (example 96% Steel, 2% Aluminum, 1% Copper and so forth)? Doesn't have to be precise, ballpark will make my point very well, thank you.

Good luck with all that.

Could you restate these in proper engineering-lingo? Thanks.

 

[bill smith]

Have you not already realized how unfathomable and unfounded your story is? Please tell me you're joking.

20,000,000 lbs. of molten iron self-sustaining at over 2,800^oF...from a building that never had fires reaching temps higher than 2,600^oF...?

W. T. F.

Of course I mean it. How else could the heat be there for six months ? Think about the meteorites ? They were perfectly obviously mixed rrubble that surrounded the pool of molten iron and were melting into it when they were suddenly frozen in time by the 'Lakes of water' that were pumped in to try and cool the steel off. It didn't work of course and they had to cease the massive pumping of water when subway stations as far away as new Jersey threatened to flood. Didn't you firemen pump out 4.2 million gallons of water ?

I didn't say 3,500 degrees fahrenheit. I meant centigrade .Like nanothermite burns at.

 

[bill smith]

Not off hand. Are you aware that this was not like some basement area?

How close to bedrock was the lowest (open) point at the time of the collapse? Where were the subway tunnels in relation to this point?

Well you know about the bathtub I presume ? So I would like to see that sketch to see where the floor of the bathtub is in relation to where the bedrock is you see ? The tunnels came through the bathtub wall.

 

[Oystein]

So did they really say:-

'' NIST specifically says that the external north wall fell, for approximately 100' at "approximately g".

So I guess we should have seen the interior steel framework as the 'external' wall fell..
...

Hmm ... good thinking.

Let's list the possibilities:
1. The external north wall fell at g, and at the same time, the internal steel framework fell at g.
2. The external northwall fell at g, the internal steel framework did not, and got exposed as the north wall fell faster.
Hmm are we onto something?


Thinking

Thinking more

Ah!


no.


There is another posibility:

3. First, the internal steel frame fell, hidden behind the north wall, and later the north wall fell at g for a while, but acceleration decreased before internal structure would have come to be revealed.


And NOW we are on to something!
(Especially considering that we already KNEW, from the fall of the penhouses, that the internal structure was already collapsing for quite a while before the north wall started coming down)

 

[Oystein]

...Just the fact that smouldering fires could survive at all in the pile despite the lack of oxygen and the constant hosing down tells you that something else was sustaining them. And that was the unquenchable heat of the 10,000 ton pool of molten steel.

Uhm nuh.
Fires have a pesky way of sticking around if you have thousands of tons of combustible materials mixed in a huge pile and you can't get to them directly. Landfills, peat-rich soils and coal mines sometimes burn for years.

 

[DGM]

Well you know about the bathtub I presume ? So I would like to see that sketch to see where the floor of the bathtub is in relation to where the bedrock is you see ? The tunnels came through the bathtub wall.

The "floor" of the bath tub is bed rock. What's this got to do with the lowest level your "pool" could have settled? Bill, you really didn't think this through.

 

[bill smith]

Uhm nuh.
Fires have a pesky way of sticking around if you have thousands of tons of combustible materials mixed in a huge pile and you can't get to them directly. Landfills, peat-rich soils and coal mines sometimes burn for years.

I love to watch you scraping the barrel Oystein. I just can't help it.

 

[bill smith]

The "floor" of the bath tub is bed rock. What's this got to do with the lowest level your "pool" could have settled? Bill, you really didn't think this through.

Well I want to find that sketch first. It was from an official source I believe. Yes...this could be interesting..

 

[DGM]

Well I want to find that sketch first. It was from an official source I believe. Yes...this could be interesting..

Not really. You will find your "pool" would be hard to miss (unless it "defies physics" and settles in some place other then the lowest). Good luck in your quest.

 

[leftysergeant]

I love to watch you scraping the barrel Oystein. I just can't help it.

Who's scraping the bottom? There have been ground fires that have burned for decades. In one case, in Australia, one has burned for a millenium that we can be sure of.

 

[twinstead]

Who's scraping the bottom? There have been ground fires that have burned for decades. In one case, in Australia, one has burned for a millenium that we can be sure of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Mountain

 

[Derek Johnson]

All right.

To be precise:

NIST specifically says that the building did NOT fall at "near G" acceleration. NIST makes no statement regarding at what acceleration the building fell, because nobody could see the building, because it was behind an opaque external wall.

Plus, it didn't fall as a unit. It fell piecemeal.

NIST specifically says that the external north wall fell, for approximately 100' at "approximately g".

That is NIST's precise statement. You KNOW that this is NIST's precise statement.

I'll deal with you skipping my other questions later, for now you need a correction.

You stated:

"NIST specifically says that the external north wall fell, for approximately 100' at "approximately g"."

Which page did you read this? Please point me to it. I await for your reply and I apologize in advance for your correction if I missed this somewhere.

tick tock...

Actually, I think you really meant that NIST "specifically" stated:

In Stage 2, the north face descended at gravitational acceleration, as exterior column buckling progressed and the columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face. This free drop continued for approximately 8 stories (105 ft), the distance traveled between t=1.75 s and t = 4.0 s.

- NCSTAR 1-9, p. 602.

Now this begs a question, which I've alluded to many times.

How would that happen with the columns Salvarinas specified?

Your "it buckled Derek" tells me you're not well trained. You're an engineer Tom, you understand energy methods (I assume), so please explain to me Tom TFK at JREF how exactly this north face descended at gravitational acceleration as exterior column buckling progressed and the columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face.

And while your at it, tell me all about your ideas on how this free drop continued for approximately 8 stories (105 ft), the distance traveled between t=1.75 s and t = 4.0 s. with the the columns Salvarinas specified.

Again, we'll deal with the other questions later.

Thanks buddy.

 

[leftysergeant]

In a building that tall, would leaning away from the camera apear to be a much faster vertical drop than is the actual case? It seems to me that the wall could have been falling at , let's say .25 g as columns snapped apart, then tilted sharply away from the camera. The result would be an appearance of much faster rate of descent, especially if the tilt was caused by the impact of an already-falling body on some part of the observe wall or the floors still attached.

 

[beachnut]

... face.

And while your at it, tell me all about your ideas on how this free drop continued for approximately 8 stories (105 ft), the distance traveled between t=1.75 s and t = 4.0 s. with the the columns Salvarinas specified.

Again, we'll deal with the other questions later.

Thanks buddy.

You can't answer how much thermite, and how? Why not?



Was it exactly G or like 28.6? What was the error budget for the measurement? Looks like it was less than G. In fact it was a range G and less than G. The entire collapse was very slow compared to free fall. You have to start the collapse time at the penthouse failure, which collapsed through the WTC 7. Your free-fall lie on all three buildings is what? Your best effort at engineering?

Did you tell your audience the Penthouse fell though the WTC 7 building before the facade fell? Well, did you?

You said disintegrated? Is that an engineering term at your school for exaggerating your presentation to fool people? Disintegrated? lol, you really have an engineering degree? Or was it a propaganda degree?

Disintegrated? lol
bill smith said the beloved and brave first responders are liars, he can help you. How much money exactly went to the first responders?
Free-Fall accelerations? lol, you lied? Why?
False Flag Terrorist Attacks? Got some proof?

You can't answer simple questions about your claims because of what reason? No evidence.

9 years of failure.

 

[leftysergeant]

There are two problems with any CD theory discussed regarding WTC. If the towers were taken down by explosives, there would have been an unmistakeable sound. If they had been taken down by thermite, there would have been clearly identifiable residues and patterns of damage.

Didn't happen.

I know of only one form of thermite that can be used to cut a standiong column, and it would leave calcium deposits that no fire fighter or metal worker clambering over the wreckage would think was normal.

They didn't see any.

This is why the least mentally stable twoofers love Judy Woo-woo and her space-case discombobulator ray.

There is no requirement that an imaginary weapon leave an identifiable signature.

 

[Arus808]

Who's scraping the bottom? There have been ground fires that have burned for decades. In one case, in Australia, one has burned for a millenium that we can be sure of.

Some in the USA too:

Centralia, PA (woot for the Silent Hill reference)
Sego, UT
New Straitsville, OH
New Castle, OH - burning since 1899

 

[bill smith]

I'll deal with you skipping my other questions later, for now you need a correction.

You stated:



Which page did you read this? Please point me to it. I await for your reply and I apologize in advance for your correction if I missed this somewhere.

tick tock...

Actually, I think you really meant that NIST "specifically" stated:

In Stage 2, the north face descended at gravitational acceleration, as exterior column buckling progressed and the columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face. This free drop continued for approximately 8 stories (105 ft), the distance traveled between t=1.75 s and t = 4.0 s.

- NCSTAR 1-9, p. 602.

Now this begs a question, which I've alluded to many times.

How would that happen with the columns Salvarinas specified?

Your "it buckled Derek" tells me you're not well trained. You're an engineer Tom, you understand energy methods (I assume), so please explain to me Tom TFK at JREF how exactly this north face descended at gravitational acceleration as exterior column buckling progressed and the columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face.

And while your at it, tell me all about your ideas on how this free drop continued for approximately 8 stories (105 ft), the distance traveled between t=1.75 s and t = 4.0 s. with the the columns Salvarinas specified.

Again, we'll deal with the other questions later.

Thanks buddy.

Derek while T is putting his wits together I just wanted to ask you if you think they might have dropped the Penthouses into the building early in order to hide something that was in there that would be incriminating or provoke unwelcome discussion .

I mean it has to be very unlikely that the strongest column in the building would fail first from mere office fires. It was about 350 tons weight I believe.

On the other hand if they deliberately demolished it first there must have been something in the Penthouses because column 79 was obviously not the key to dropping the whole building.