Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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GrandMasterFox said:
...Why are you so cling to defend a book you know nothing about?
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Comments like these are absurd. Lets just say I know enough to make 2100 posts in a thread with 345,000 hits.

There is no afterlife in the OT. The OT is super clear that god will either punish you in this life or your offspring in this life. No afterlife what so ever.

Give at least one reference in the OT that talks about an afterlife.
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Actually the OT it is not super clear on this because an eternal kingdom is definitely in the OT and it says the holy people of the most high will rule forever and ever.

From biblegateway.com -- Daniel 7 : 13 - 15

13 As my vision continued that night, I saw someone like a son of man[d] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient One and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, honor, and sovereignty over all the nations of the world, so that people of every race and nation and language would obey him. His rule is eternal—it will never end. His kingdom will never be destroyed.

The Vision Is Explained

15 I, Daniel, was troubled by all I had seen, and my visions terrified me. 16 So I approached one of those standing beside the throne and asked him what it all meant. He explained it to me like this: 17 “These four huge beasts represent four kingdoms that will arise from the earth. 18 But in the end, the holy people of the Most High will be given the kingdom, and they will rule forever and ever.”

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel 7-9&version=NLT
 
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Doc

A significant number of your posts are edited soon after posting. I know this has nothing to do with the thread, but please tell us why.
 
DOC said:
Comments like these are absurd. Lets just say I know enough to make 2100 posts in a thread with 335,000 hits.
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Joobz, paximperium and I have made more than 3½ thousand posts in the same thread, DOC, so that must mean that not only do we know more than you about these matters, but since weve posted almost twice as much as you then we've convincingly won the debate.

Seeing that you're so obviously outmatched, why do you persist?
 
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DOC said:
Comments like these are absurd. Lets just say I know enough to make 2100 posts in a thread with 345,000 hits.
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Since they're all repeats, you basically have one post in this thread. If I discounted all the ones that are logical fallacies, you would have fewer than that even. That leaves 13,000+ posts all refuting your one.
 
DOC said:
Actually the OT it is not super clear on this because an eternal kingdom is definitely in the OT and it says the holy people of the most high will rule forever and ever.

From biblegateway.com -- Daniel 7 : 13 - 15

13 As my vision continued that night, I saw someone like a son of man[d] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient One and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, honor, and sovereignty over all the nations of the world, so that people of every race and nation and language would obey him. His rule is eternal—it will never end. His kingdom will never be destroyed.

The Vision Is Explained

15 I, Daniel, was troubled by all I had seen, and my visions terrified me. 16 So I approached one of those standing beside the throne and asked him what it all meant. He explained it to me like this: 17 “These four huge beasts represent four kingdoms that will arise from the earth. 18 But in the end, the holy people of the Most High will be given the kingdom, and they will rule forever and ever.”

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel 7-9&version=NLT
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I see nothing stating an afterlife there.

And considering that many OT people were reported to have lived hundreds and hundreds of years, your claim that these eternal kingdoms represent an afterlife kingdom is simply not supported.
 
DOC said:
Comments like these are absurd. Lets just say I know enough to make 2100 posts in a thread with 345,000 hits.
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Comments like this are dead on because it is not the first nor the last time you have shown complete ignorant on what the bible actually say.

Your comment on the other hand states that you claim to know what you are talking about because of the amounts of posts you make, not their content...
That's not wisdom and knowledge, that's just basic spam.

DOC said:
Actually the OT it is not super clear on this because an eternal kingdom is definitely in the OT and it says the holy people of the most high will rule forever and ever. <snipped idiotic rant>
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Not a single word of that refers to an afterlife.
Eternal kingdom is not an afterlife.
Do you know what an afterlife even means Doc?

The OT talks about punishment and rewards in this life on this earth alone.

The supposed wisest man in the OT history whines that there is nothing beyond this life. (You know the bible so much, let's see if you even know what I'm talking about)

The OT is actually very clear on that.
When you die, you go to "sleep" and that's that.
 
DOC said:
Comments like these are absurd. Lets just say I know enough to make 2100 posts in a thread with 345,000 hits.
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And yet you still can't answer basic Biblical questions, instead choosing to bore folks with a relentless Gish Gallop and thumping your e-chest with an announcement of how great your post count is. Whole lotta typing, not much being said.

Was the story of Jesus and the adultress added to the original Gospels? Simple question.
 
joobz said:
I see nothing stating an afterlife there.

And considering that many OT people were reported to have lived hundreds and hundreds of years, your claim that these eternal kingdoms represent an afterlife kingdom is simply not supported.
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GrandMasterFox said:
...The OT is actually very clear on that.
When you die, you go to "sleep" and that's that.
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Well then what do you think of this verse in Psalms?

Psa 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me...
 
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DOC said:
Well then what do you think of this verse in Psalms?

Psa 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me...
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that verse actually supports GrandMasterFoxes' statement.
You need The verse before that to get the context:

"Like sheep they are laid in the grave;

death shall feed on them;
and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning;
and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave:"

ETA:
Other translations use "life" instead of soul. I'll let you figure out why.
 
joobz said:
that verse actually supports GrandMasterFoxes' statement.
You need The verse before that to get the context:

"Like sheep they are laid in the grave;

death shall feed on them;
and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning;
and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave:"

ETA:
Other translations use "life" instead of soul. I'll let you figure out why.
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Joobz, I believe you're in denial.
 
DOC said:
Joobz, I believe you're in denial.
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No evidence to see here folks!

Speaking of denial--DOC, Biblical scholars agree--the story of Christ and the adultress is a story added by later scribes and is not a part of the original Gospel of John.

Do you concur or disagree? Why?
 
Hi DOC - you apparently didn't bother to read this when is was first posted - postnumber #14838 - so rather than expect you to go all that way back, here's the data again....

However, if you’re going to use the martyrdom of the apostles as evidence that the unknown authors of the gospels wrote the truth, then I think you need to ensure that the data pertaining to said martyrdom is “real”.

So here’s a summary of what I found on Wiki:

The original team:
Peter: early church tradition says he probably died by upside-down crucifixion in Rome, AD 64.

James, son of Zebedee: apparently beheaded in AD 44 (only recorded in Acts).

John, son of Zebedee: believed to have died of natural causes, aged about 94.

Andrew, Peter’s brother: said to have been crucified at Patras in Achaea.

Philip: According to legend, crucified upside-down in Hieropolis, AD 54. Another legend has him beheaded in the same city. The Catholic Church regards the accounts of his death as legendary - there’s no reputable source for his death.

Bartholomew: According to one account beheaded, but a more popular tradition has him flayed alive then crucified. Either at Derbend on the Caspian Sea or at Albanopolis in Armenia.

Matthew: Said to have died a natural death either in Ethiopia or Macedonia. However, both the Catholic & Orthodox Church traditions hold that he was martyred - apparently in AD 60 by a halberd.

Thomas: according to Syriac tradition, stoned then killed with a lance in Mylapore, Madras, AD 72.

James, son of Alphaeus: Tradition holds that he was beaten to death with a club after being stones and crucified in Ostrakine, Lower Egypt.

Jude: according to Armenian tradition, crucified in Beirut, Lebanon in AD 65.

Simon the Zealot: from various traditions:
Crucified in Samaria, AD 74.
Sawn in half at Suanir, Persia.
Martyred at Weriosphora in Caucasian Iberia.
Died peacefully at Edessa.
Martyred in Caistor (in modern day Lincolnshire)
Also, killed in a Jewish revolt against the Romans.
Busy, busy, busy, huh?

Judas Iscariot: according to various accounts:
Committed suicide by hanging.
Fell down and burst open.
Stoned to death by the other eleven apostles.
After his body became grossly swollen, crushed by a chariot.

And off the substitutes’ bench:
Matthias: Crucified in Colchis, or stoned & beheaded in Jerusalem. Oh, he apparently also died of old age in Jerusalem.

So the key words, in virtually every case, are “according to tradition/legend”.

According to these data, there’s no real EVIDENCE that any of the apostles were martyred - it could easily be fiction written for religious political purposes.

Many of these stories are also highly contradictory - much like the gospels, eh?

So - how about just one of the so-called martyrs - Simon the Zealot? According to tradition, he died 6 times. Now isn't that more than Jesus?

I await your reply with interest.......

OK, OK - I realise this is pointless, but I'm genuinely interested in what DOC "thinks"/"knows" about this....
 
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