Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[DOC]

Well, did anybody verify if it was true or not?

The point is why make a statement like that. IF I said I scored 50 points in a game would it be logical for me to say there is also a plaque in the gym that states it if I was making it up and it could thus be verified.

 

[Akhenaten]

which specific post that talks of a fallacy do you want me to address the most and i will address it.

#14856​

yes but how many of those died for a deity they actually knew (like the apostles) and walked and talked with for 3 years.

1) you have no more or less evidence that they didn't, than you do for the alleged apostles.
2) circular reasoning.
3) special pleading.

gb

 

[paximperium]

The point is why make a statement like that. IF I said I scored 50 points in a game would it be logical for me to say there is also a plaque in the gym that states it if I was making it up and it could thus be verified.

So you agree that it cannot be verified to determine its reliability.

 

[Akhenaten]

The point is why make a statement like that. IF I said I scored 50 points in a game would it be logical for me to say there is also a plaque in the gym that states it if I was making it up and it could thus be verified.

It wouldn't be remotely logical but since when have you let a little thing like that stand in your way?

 

[carlitos]

Which specific post that talks of a fallacy do you want me to address the most and I will address it.

• Your use of "Sir Ramsay" and Thomas Jefferson as evidence is an appeal to authority.
• Your use of the bible as evidence to prove the bible (Jesus appeared to Paul) is circular reasoning.
• Your lack of acceptance for the exact same arguments to provide evidence of Hinduism is special pleading.
• Your intimation that there was no fiction in the ancient Greek world (which included Judea) is ignorance, a lie, or both.

ETA - In terms of grammar, the above quotation is an abortion. DOC, could you please try to construct proper sentences, and to end questions with question marks?

 

[carlitos]

I'm probably going to stop quoting these, since he dishonestly won't respond to them anyway...

which specific post that talks of a fallacy do you want me to address the most and i will address it.

#14856​

yes but how many of those died for a deity they actually knew (like the apostles) and walked and talked with for 3 years.

1) you have no more or less evidence that they didn't, than you do for the alleged apostles.
2) circular reasoning.
3) special pleading.

gb

 

[John Jones]

The point is why make a statement like that. IF I said I scored 50 points in a game would it be logical for me to say there is also a plaque in the gym that states it if I was making it up and it could thus be verified.

No, no, no. The point is this: I've seen lots of liars, proselytes, and Tellers of Tall Tales make unsupported claims because they expected nobody would check.

So did anyone verify this claim of Eusebius, that "a pillar was erected that still remains close by the temple."?

Note the use of a question mark above.

 

[Akhenaten]

I'm probably going to stop quoting these, since he dishonestly won't respond to them anyway...

It's all good, Mate, and thank you for your trouble.

 

[shawmutt]

DOC, still avoiding this thread I see:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183680&highlight=adultress

 

[Akhenaten]

So did anyone verify this claim of Eusebius, that "a pillar was erected that still remains close by the temple."?

Lots, although you'd need to take it with a grain of salt.


Oops, that's OT, isn't it?

 

[John Jones]

Lots, although you'd need to take it with a grain of salt.


Oops, that's OT, isn't it?

How come Doc can't answer these simple queries, but Aberhaten can?

 

[Akhenaten]

Somewhat embarrassingly, Aberhaten has actually read the stupid book, but DOC hasn't.

I'm sure there's a lesson in that for all of us, although I'm not exactly sure what it is.

 

[SezMe]

I'm sure there's a lesson in that for all of us, although I'm not exactly sure what it is.

Reading lessons are a good thing?

Wow, a question mark at the end of a question. Whodathunkit.

 

[carlitos]

pithy

Lots, although you'd need to take it with a grain of salt.


Oops, that's OT, isn't it?

Pillar. Salt. OT. Funny.

 

[joobz]

The point is why make a statement like that. IF I said I scored 50 points in a game would it be logical for me to say there is also a plaque in the gym that states it if I was making it up and it could thus be verified.

It's funny. When people recount tales of their high school exploits, they always seem to score the game winning touchdown on homecoming and bed the head cheerleader the exact same night...which was homecoming.....

Stories get exaggerated as they are retold. This is human nature. Why would one think that stories of a god be any different?

 

[Akhenaten]

Pillar. Salt. OT. Funny.

Don't forget the 'Lots' part.

 

[joobz]

Which specific post that talks of a fallacy do you want me to address the most and I will address it.

How about Post #544
This one has never been effectively addressed.

Or, if we wish to extend the request to counter arguments to the OP that have yet to be refuted, I'd vote for #3. It's been almost 15000 posts, and you have yet to actually counter the third post.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Another generalized statement. Why don't you just let the posts stand for themselves. And I have responded to posts that talk of fallacies.

Which specific post that talks of a fallacy do you want me to address the most and I will address it.

I accept your offer and agree with joobz's suggestion of post #544 here replicated for your convenience:

Right. Since I now have a bit of time on my hands, let's take a look at one example of Geisler's oh-so-stellar reasoning. From DOC's OP:

Reason #10

The New Testament Writers Abandoned Their Long Held Sacred Beliefs and Practices, Adopted New Ones, And Did Not Deny Their Testimony Under Persecution Or Threat Of Death

Ladies and gentlemen, here is Geisler's reasoning to support why this is true and all of the Muslim/Heaven's Gate/kamikaze martyrs do not count.

What does martyrdom prove? Does it prove Islam is true too?

Not at all. There are some similarities, but there's one critical difference between the New Testament martyrs and those of today. One similarity shared by all martyrs is sincerity. Whether you're talking about Christians, Muslims, kamikaze pilots, or suicidal cult followers, everyone agrees that martyrs sincerely believe in their cause. But the critical difference is that the New Testament Christian martyrs had more than sincerity - they had evidence that the Resurrection was true. Why? Because the New Testament Christian martyrs were eyewitnesses of the Resurrected Christ. They knew the Resurrection was true and not a lie because they verified it with their own senses.

Let's see. What was that definition of circular reasoning again?

DOC, how do you address these fallacies of special pleading and circular argument? I'm positive that you will need me to explain that further.

The special pleading arises because he is claiming that two identical reasons for two different religions to be true only applies to one of them, incidentally the one he is already predisposed to believe to be true anyway.

The circular argument arises because he is using lore from the Christian Bible to prove Christianity is true.

These are unresolved problems with your (or Geisler's) argument. Unresolved because you have not satisfactorily addressed them in any post. That means that you may not simply direct me back to a post # and may not handwave it away. You must genuinely address these two fallacies and either resolve them or admit that they are fallacious arguments.

 

[Mojo]

And we know gospel writer Luke (who was praised by Sir William M. Ramsay as a great historian regarding things that can be proven by historical and archaeological evidence) stated Stephen was stoned for his Christian faith and the apostle Paul witnessed this stoning.

There you go again, DOC, trying to use the NT as evidence that the NT is true.

 

[Simon39759]

The point is why make a statement like that. IF I said I scored 50 points in a game would it be logical for me to say there is also a plaque in the gym that states it if I was making it up and it could thus be verified.

Okie Dokie then.
Well, back in the late eighties, I beat the record for high-school soccer by scoring an incredible 6 goals in a row.
Indeed, they did put a plaque on the wall to celebrate this event.

Ok, now go and debunk that.

It should be easy. After all, the problems are quite the same, the alleged events are a few decades old (although quite as old as they were when the Gospels got written, and people do live longer, and writing, of course, is much more prevalent). The city did undergo some widespread destruction during a civil war but not more than Jerusalem did at the time. Sarajevo is, of course, probably quite distant from wherever you live, but transportation has progressed so much that it is actually easier for you than it would have been for most 2nd century Christian to get to Jerusalem...