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Coast to Coast AM Debate, August 21 2010

GlennB said:
None of them has to break necessarily. Bolts and welds may be the first thing to go. And with column failure mostly on one side initially there will be a tendency to tilt.

I'm not at all sure why you're even looking for instantaneous failure of every column ??
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Don't you think it counter-imtuitive to see the strongest column in the building failing first ?. Do you not think it ,more likely that there was something inside both Penthouses that they wanted to hide under the rubble considering how unlikely it is that both Penthouses would collapse co cleanly into the building in the first place ?
 
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bill smith said:
Don't you think it counter-imtuitive to see the strongest column in the building failing first ?. Do you not think it ,more likely that there was something inside both Penthouses that they wanted to hide under the rubble considering how unlikely it is that both Penthouses would collapse into the building first ??
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Air conditioners. Yes they need to hide them. You refuse to join the real world; good for you girl.
 
Tony Szamboti said:
You have no basis to say there are no indications of explosives.
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FACT: "There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers," Lerner-Lam tells PM. "That representation of our work is categorically incorrect and not in context."
The report issued by Lamont-Doherty includes various graphs showing the seismic readings produced by the planes crashing into the two towers as well as the later collapse of both buildings. WhatReallyHappened.com chooses to display only one graph (Graph 1), which shows the readings over a 30-minute time span.
On that graph, the 8- and 10-second collapses appear—misleadingly—as a pair of sudden spikes. Lamont-Doherty's 40-second plot of the same data (Graph 2) gives a much more detailed picture: The seismic waves—blue for the South Tower, red for the North Tower—start small and then escalate as the buildings rumble to the ground. Translation: no bombs.​

You wanna call up LDEO and tell them where the seismic signatures for 40,000+ detonations are in the 9/11 recordings, Tony?
 
bill smith said:
Air-conditioners ? Out of the mouths of babes. You never said a truer word in your life Beachnut.
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You post delusions, your questions reek with implied delusions. Don't get me wrong; your posting delusions is disrespectful; it is possible to figure out 911 in a very short period, orders of magnitude less than 8 years.

Your insistence on making delusional posts and avoiding reality must be what it takes for you to remain civil and functioning enough to type; good for you if you must remain in a fantasy world dishing out moronic lies. You have no clue what happen on 911, you don't care; you are the personification of 911 truth.

Poor Gage can't figure out 911, or is putting on a show to earn a living. He acts like a nut, and fools a few fringe people who prefer to let someone else tell them what is. This is skeptics forum, when will you join?
 
beachnut said:
Are you naturally paranoid and prone to make up delusions? Wow

... questionable about the real story of what happen on 911; ... 19 terrorists did it. Why can't Gage answer his own questions when all the answers and evidence is available? Is he that stupid? Is the plot too complex for Gage to comprehend?

Plot, complex steps taken by 19 terrorists; did they have trouble memorizing the steps?
1. Kill pilots
2. Fly planes into large buildings

Why can't Gage grasp the complex plot of 911? Two steps too many? Is he nuts, or a snake-oil salesman fooling gullible to donate to his travels. What caused Gage's quixotic quest for stupid?

Lucky 911 truth was not on Flight 93; can't figure out 911 in minutes and can't take action; 8 years, 911 truth still has the delusion of CD, and Gage is spewing lies on the radio. Gage has zero people in his cult who are capable of figuring out 911, they have suspended rational thinking to become followers in a club of no action save spreading lies.

The real conspiracy? How Gage fools people into believing lies and delusions. What failed those who fall for his idiotic claims? Gage drones drank the Kool-aid of failure and do nothing when they sign up for his cult. A worthless, harmless, do nothing cult which fools those fringe people who believe in woo. ... unnatural forces, like witches and demons? lol, UFOs, Bigfoot? Start the unnatural forces thread!
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I love you Beachnut, you're awesome. :D
 
Tony Szamboti said:
No matter what you try to say, the problem for those who want to say WTC 7 took 16 seconds to collapse is that by all indications the collapse of the east penthouse was a separate and distinct failure and was not part of the mechanism which brought down the entire building moments later.
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That's false. It eliminated structural support to the rest of the building which overstressed the remaining, but weakened structural supports.
This is proven by the fact that all of the motion and indications of failure are occurring in the upper east side when the east penthouse goes down. There are no external indications of the failure moving laterally across the building right after the east penthouse goes down, and there are none down low where the main building failure had to take place across the entire structure.
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That is completely false. Immediately before the external wall collapses, the remaining roof structures collapse into the building from east to west and completely disappear faster then the external wall is collapsing.
The reality is that the east penthouse came down with some failure apparent in the upper east side, there was a short pause, and then the entire building came down suddenly, in less than 7 seconds and in full freefall for over 100 feet or eight stories just after it initiated. That is impossible to have happen short of a controlled demolition.
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That is completely false. The reality that you refuse to accept is that the ease penthouse is the start of the collapse. You refuse to accept that the explosives required to make it happen would be more than loud enough for 100% of all audio recording devices in the area to record the sound. You refuse to see the east-west progression of the internal structure collapse. You, like the rest of the TM, has yet to provide any proof that only a CD can make it happen.

ETA: I'm still waiting for you example of one of the "many" CDs by explosives where they collapsed the roof structures into the building seconds prior to the rest of the building.
 
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beachnut said:
You post delusions, your questions reek with implied delusions. Don't get me wrong; your posting delusions is disrespectful; it is possible to figure out 911 in a very short period, orders of magnitude less than 8 years.

Your insistence on making delusional posts and avoiding reality must be what it takes for you to remain civil and functioning enough to type; good for you if you must remain in a fantasy world dishing out moronic lies. You have no clue what happen on 911, you don't care; you are the personification of 911 truth.

Poor Gage can't figure out 911, or is putting on a show to earn a living. He acts like a nut, and fools a few fringe people who prefer to let someone else tell them what is. This is skeptics forum, when will you join?
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How come there were not a half-dozen helicopters filming the collapse of WTC7 from the air ? After all the TV stations were so convinced that the building would collapse that they had already reported on the live news that it had done so a full hour before the event actually took place ?

Tell us why you think there was no aerial photography of the collapse of WTC7 Beachnut.
 
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bill smith said:
How come there were not a half-dozen helicopters filming the collapse of WTC7 from the air ? After all the TV stations were so convinced that the building would collapse that they had already reported on the live news that it had done so a full hour before the event actually took place ?

Tell us why you think why it was Beachnut that there was no aerial photography of the collapse of WTC7.
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OH, you got me!

Wow, you ask the questions so hard, and so hard hitting.. .!

What is the answer? Darn... Let me think?


ATC ZERO!

Do you comprehend reality? Or are you not trying? WAKE UP - you lost this one but don't let that stop you from asking questions you could answer yourself. Boy that one took me 0.37 seconds to check! lol

Do you need help understanding why air traffic in the entire country was limited to military and things like CAP moving blood products? People doing real work, not making up delusions and lies.
 
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bill smith said:
Don't you think it counter-imtuitive to see the strongest column in the building failing first ?. Do you not think it ,more likely that there was something inside both Penthouses that they wanted to hide under the rubble considering how unlikely it is that both Penthouses would collapse co cleanly into the building in the first place ?
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We were discussing WTC1 at the time.

But, as a matter of interest, The E Penthouse was added to WTC7 in 1989 to accommodate air conditioning gear.
 
Tony Szamboti said:
No matter what you try to say, the problem for those who want to say WTC 7 took 16 seconds to collapse is that by all indications the collapse of the east penthouse was a separate and distinct failure and was not part of the mechanism which brought down the entire building moments later.

This is proven by the fact that all of the motion and indications of failure are occurring in the upper east side when the east penthouse goes down. There are no external indications of the failure moving laterally across the building right after the east penthouse goes down, and there are none down low where the main building failure had to take place across the entire structure.

The reality is that the east penthouse came down with some failure apparent in the upper east side, there was a short pause, and then the entire building came down suddenly, in less than 7 seconds and in full freefall for over 100 feet or eight stories just after it initiated. That is impossible to have happen short of a controlled demolition.
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Tony, you must be joking to write something like this. I stand in awe of this bare assertion 'by all indications the collapse of the east penthouse was a separate and distinct failure and was not part of the mechanism which brought down the entire building moments later.' The audacity and incompetence of this statement are breathtaking.

Aren't you supposed to be an engineer? Surely you must know better.
 
alienentity said:
Tony, you must be joking to write something like this. I stand in awe of this bare assertion 'by all indications the collapse of the east penthouse was a separate and distinct failure and was not part of the mechanism which brought down the entire building moments later.' The audacity and incompetence of this statement are breathtaking.

Aren't you supposed to be an engineer? Surely you must know better.
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I'm trying to imagine the logic of having a multi-ton air conditioning penthouse fall through an office building, which then collapses seconds later, and then denying the two events are related. I don't think it's going to fly. It's like imagining that a guy gets shot, then falls over moments later, and suggesting that it's a coincidence.
 
alienentity said:
Tony, you must be joking to write something like this. I stand in awe of this bare assertion 'by all indications the collapse of the east penthouse was a separate and distinct failure and was not part of the mechanism which brought down the entire building moments later.' The audacity and incompetence of this statement are breathtaking.

Aren't you supposed to be an engineer? Surely you must know better.
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Just the fact that all four corners of WTC7 collapse within milliseconds of each other as can be seen in the attached video at the 1:20 mark vindicates what Tony is saying. There is no question of a progressive collapse when that happens. That much is self evident to the Readers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO14CY36vKA&feature=player_embedded#

PS. I am not spamming or derailing with this video. I just don't have a finer example of ehat I am trying to get across.
 
bill smith said:
Just the fact that all four corners of WTC7 collapse within milliseconds of each other as can be seen in the attached video at the 1:20 mark vindicates what Tony is saying. There is no question of a progressive collapse when that happens. That much is self evident to the Readers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO14CY36vKA&feature=player_embedded#

PS. I am not spamming or derailing with this video. I just don't have a finer example of ehat I am trying to get across.
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There is no video showing all 4 corners at the time of collapse.
 
carlitos said:
I'm trying to imagine the logic of having a multi-ton air conditioning penthouse fall through an office building, which then collapses seconds later, and then denying the two events are related. I don't think it's going to fly. It's like imagining that a guy gets shot, then falls over moments later, and suggesting that it's a coincidence.
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Nobody's denying the two events are related, and nobody's suggesting it's a coincidence.

It's more like a guy who gets shot in the arm and loses some blood, then moments later gets shot through the head and goes down.
 
GlennB said:
There is no video showing all 4 corners at the time of collapse.
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I think most normal people will extrapolate that the building was going down as it appears. All four corners at the same time give or take a few thousandths of a hair. Unless you have something that indicates otherwise ? Speak now or forever hold your peace.
 
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