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Cancer rise in Fallujah

The Fool said:
ok, as you say...nothing wrong with asking for clarification so as you are tapdancing around the question can I ask you to clarify this post?

the question is should DU be found to be contaminating falluja should the US be obligated to clean it up. You appear to be on the surface saying no but leaving yourself plenty of roof to "clarify" it to something else...


any chance of a straight answer to a straight question once in a while?
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I don't know what more "clarification" you want.

We're spending a ton of money and effort on the country now. I think we should continue doing that.

At some point, however, we gotta turn it all over to the Iraqis. I tend to prefer sooner rather than later, but that depends on their political stability and their ability to maintain peace.

When we turn it all over, undoubtedly there will be plenty of work left to do. They should continue doing that.

I don't think any particular project has any special obligation that the United States needs to do it.

Clear enough?
 
Mycroft said:
I don't know what more "clarification" you want.

We're spending a ton of money and effort on the country now. I think we should continue doing that.

At some point, however, we gotta turn it all over to the Iraqis. I tend to prefer sooner rather than later, but that depends on their political stability and their ability to maintain peace.

When we turn it all over, undoubtedly there will be plenty of work left to do. They should continue doing that.

I don't think any particular project has any special obligation that the United States needs to do it.

Clear enough?
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no....but its what I have learned to expect....sounds like you are saying after some nominated pullout date its all responsibility cancelled.

think I'll put you down for a no.....unless thats too clear?
 
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The Fool said:
no....but its what I have learned to expect....sounds like you are saying after some nominated pullout date its all responsibility cancelled.

think I'll put you down for a no.....unless thats too clear?
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Sure. but let me ask you a question.

If someone were to imagine some danger, something really steeped in hard-core woo...some munition was used that some people think is really dangerous to the environment but the science just wasn't there to back up their claims...

Do you think that would create an obligation on the US to clean it up?
 
Mycroft said:
Sure. but let me ask you a question.

If someone were to imagine some danger, something really steeped in hard-core woo...some munition was used that some people think is really dangerous to the environment but the science just wasn't there to back up their claims...

Do you think that would create an obligation on the US to clean it up?
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Mate...if someone asked me to be responsible for any residue left behind from Martian death rays in Falluja I'd agree.... because I'm fairly confident that my obligation will be quite limited......

whereas in your case you want to be confident about Falluja and DU but.....not confident enough to put the wallet behind it eh?
 
It would be a fairly trivial matter to take soil samples in Fallujah to test for DU.... you'd think that would be the first step an actual scientist would take if he suspected DU contamination.

Not that sound science was the goal here... this was purely political.
 
The Fool said:
Mate...if someone asked me to be responsible for any residue left behind from Martian death rays in Falluja I'd agree.... because I'm fairly confident that my obligation will be quite limited......

whereas in your case you want to be confident about Falluja and DU but.....not confident enough to put the wallet behind it eh?
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Ah, that's what you were getting at.


Well I'm with Wildcat on this one. The scientific approach here is to test your hypothesis, not just embrace it because it suits your woo woo biases.
 
The Fool said:
Mate...if someone asked me to be responsible for any residue left behind from Martian death rays in Falluja I'd agree.... because I'm fairly confident that my obligation will be quite limited......

whereas in your case you want to be confident about Falluja and DU but.....not confident enough to put the wallet behind it eh?
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Actually, I think Mycroft has been pretty clear in this thread that he's quite willing to take responsibility for problems that actually exist.

I can't speak for him, but my objection is that this whole line of questioning seems to be you trying to get people to admit responsibility for problems that don't actually exist. Show me DU contamination in Fallujah, traceable to U.S. activities there, in sufficient amounts to cause a problem, and I'll happily agree that the U.S. should take responsibility for it. I wouldn't be surprised if Mycroft feels the same way.
 
Mycroft said:
Ah, that's what you were getting at.


Well I'm with Wildcat on this one. The scientific approach here is to test your hypothesis, not just embrace it because it suits your woo woo biases.
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How will you approach the problem of Iraqi women being scared to have babies in case they're deformed, scientifically?
 
JihadJane said:
How will you approach the problem of Iraqi women being scared to have babies in case they're deformed, scientifically?
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How would you normally approach any situation where people make irrational decisions based on woo?
 
theprestige said:
Actually, I think Mycroft has been pretty clear in this thread that he's quite willing to take responsibility for problems that actually exist.

I can't speak for him, but my objection is that this whole line of questioning seems to be you trying to get people to admit responsibility for problems that don't actually exist. Show me DU contamination in Fallujah, traceable to U.S. activities there, in sufficient amounts to cause a problem, and I'll happily agree that the U.S. should take responsibility for it. I wouldn't be surprised if Mycroft feels the same way.
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Pretty much.

The issue with DU is that the science isn't there to back up the fears. Certainly if the science changes, then our approach should change too, but until that day we should resist giving credence to irrational fears.

Should we take responsibility for contamination of Fallujah? Well, I think we're taking responsibility for all of Iraq by spending lots of money in reconstruction and in keeping our soldiers there, in harm's way, promoting stability. I'm not under the illusion that when we leave everything will be fixed, but our hope is certainly that we will leave Iraq with the stability and resources to deal with their problems on their own.
 
JihadJane said:
How do you know that their fear isn't rooted in reality?
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How come no one has collected soil samples in Fallujah?

If you don't weant to be accused of peddling woo, cite some actual science instead of the garbage cited in the OP.
 
JihadJane said:
How do you know that their fear isn't rooted in reality?
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Because if it were based in reality we wouldn't be having this discussion. There would be scientific evidence available, that that would end the matter.

Do you consider that potato in your avatar shaped like a heart or an elbow? I can see it either way.
 
Mycroft said:
Because if it were based in reality we wouldn't be having this discussion. There would be scientific evidence available, that that would end the matter.

Do you consider that potato in your avatar shaped like a heart or an elbow? I can see it either way.
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So lack of research means that the observations of ordinary people are automatically "woo"?


Weird!
 
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