Who started both World Wars?

[Andy_Ross]

There's no "of course" about it. Do you have anything to support the credibility of those sources, or is this just a circle of nutcases who write made-up nonsense and then quote each other to provide a spurious patina of credibility for their fantasy?

YOu worked it out? lol

That's exactly what they do. Plus they avoid primary sources if they can.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A quick Google gives the text at http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/Dip/Fourteen.html, and it's very clearly not a declaration of war in any sense; it doesn't even constitute a formal breaking off of diplomatic relations. It's notable for the fact that it says nothing whatsoever about future Japanese intentions.

Dave

Exactly. It was a rambling message with no real purpose. The Gaimudaijin had wanted to send SOMETHING and the military said, "Okay, but don't give away our plans in any fashion." So that piece of diplo-speak was sent.

BTW, the Japanese didn't even WRITE their declarations of war until after they'd heard the attacks were successful.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I make it simple for you guys... does anybody want to deny here that this meeting took place and that the following was discussed:

November 25, meeting in the White House between Roosevelt, Hull, Stark, Marshall, Stimson. All knew that November 29 was the dead line. Stimson wrote in his diary that Roosevelt had said that the US probably would be attacked, maybe already next Monday. The Japanese are notorious for surprise attacks. The question was how we could manouver them in a position that they shoot first, without endangering ourselves too much.

Any body who wants to be the sucker?

Hell, even the BBC (Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation) now admits that Roosevelt provoked and let PH happen (scroll to last 3 minutes of broadcast). Why don't you give up and stop making fools of yourselves!?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I make it simple for you guys... does anybody want to deny here that this meeting took place and that the following was discussed:

November 25, meeting in the White House between Roosevelt, Hull, Stark, Marshall, Stimson. All knew that November 29 was the dead line. Stimson wrote in his diary that Roosevelt had said that the US probably would be attacked, maybe already next Monday. The Japanese are notorious for surprise attacks. The question was how we could manouver them in a position that they shoot first, without endangering ourselves too much.

Any body who wants to be the sucker?

Hell, even the BBC (Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation) now admits that Roosevelt provoked and let PH happen (scroll to last 3 minutes of broadcast). Why don't you give up and stop making fools of yourselves!?

MOre copy pasta. You don't have the full picture so you can only toss out the wee bits you find.

You'll note that nowhere in that bit does it mention Pearl Harbor? No, of course you won't.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Hell, even the BBC (Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation) now admits that Roosevelt provoked and let PH happen (scroll to last 3 minutes of broadcast). Why don't you give up and stop making fools of yourselves!?

Because you haven't proven your case?

 

[9/11-investigator]

MOre copy pasta. You don't have the full picture so you can only toss out the wee bits you find.

You'll note that nowhere in that bit does it mention Pearl Harbor? No, of course you won't.

So you seem to agree that that meeting took place. Fine.

Now, what other targets than PH could Roosevelt have had in mind?

 

[aggle-rithm]

911 Investigator's ability to learn new things is laudable. We have seen that he has significantly increased his knowledge of what occurred during WWII.

However, he is missing the crucial step of understanding what he has learned. Each new fact is twisted to fit what he has already decided is the truth.

He started out by saying that Britain forced Germany to attack Poland by failing to agree to very reasonable demands, because they just wanted war. When it was pointed out that the British entered into a state of war quite timidly and hesitantly, while Germany was brutally dissecting Poland, he changed his tune and said the British wanted to invade Norway, because they just wanted war. Then he had to concede that France held a much more hard-line stance against the Germans than did the British, so maybe the French started it, because they just wanted war.

All the while, it's the evil Joooos lurking behind the scenes, pulling the strings. Yes, those evil Jews who definitely exist but who cannot be identified. The same ones who controlled the USSR, Turkey, and America, three nations with completely different (and even conflicting) ideologies and goals. Anything significant that happens in the world, no matter who it harms or who it benefits, you can bet the Jews are behind it. If it benefits the Jews, then they did it. If it hurts the Jews, then they also did it, to raise sympathy for the Jewish cause.

Everything is based on the axiom, "the Jews didit", which is never questioned or examined in any way. It is simply assumed to be true, and the circular evidence is everywhere: If it happened, then the Jews did it, and we know they did it because they are behind everything!

I wonder if, when this great revolution of the White Man occurs, he will also attribute it to the mechanations of the Jews.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So you seem to agree that that meeting took place. Fine.

Now, what other targets than PH could Roosevelt have had in mind?

As Knox said, when handed a report on the attack at Pearl Harbor, "This must be wrong! They must mean the Philippines!"

See? You don't know squat about the events, yet you prattle on. For someone who routinely reviles American culture you certainly do a lot of Reader's Digest posts.

 

[aggle-rithm]

So you seem to agree that that meeting took place. Fine.

Now, what other targets than PH could Roosevelt have had in mind?

What political advantage was gained by letting the attack on the Phillipines happen? By your logic, if someone knows an attack is coming and they fail to adequately defend themselves, then it is a political ploy.

It seems to me that if the US wanted to focus on Germany, and allowing the Japanese attack was only a "back door", this would have been more readily achieved by NOT losing crucial positions to the Japanese, requiring considerable resources to go to the Pacific.

I'll give you a moment to learn about the Phillipines.

 

[Dave Rogers]

The question was how we could manouver them in a position that they shoot first, without endangering ourselves too much.

I see that the quote doesn't say "...how could we manouver them in a position that they sink all the heavy units in our Pacific fleet." Maybe that might have been seen as "...endangering ourselves too much"?

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

As Knox said, when handed a report on the attack at Pearl Harbor, "This must be wrong! They must mean the Philippines!"

Which were, of course, also attacked by the Japanese on the same day that they attacked Pearl Harbor. Which attack would have been, had the Pearl Harbor attack either not happened or not succeeded, in itself a more than adequate cause for the US to go to war with Japan.

But I wonder if 9/11-investigator knew that the Philippines were attacked too?

Dave

ETA: Missed aggle-rithm's post that suggested a similar level of ignorance.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I see that the quote doesn't say "...how could we manouver them in a position that they sink all the heavy units in our Pacific fleet." Maybe that might have been seen as "...endangering ourselves too much"?

Dave

It's amusing that people even harp on this. We knew the Japanese were going to start a war in the Pacific. No provocation from us needed. So it's just a matter of getting the best political position from that fait accompli.

 

[9/11-investigator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib2Mmim17aY

While my opponents still have to consider whether they are going to admit defeat in the PH question, the smarter ones will proceed with evaluating the consequences of this new insight. But first this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib2Mmim17aY

9:40 The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact has been signed in Moscow and a copy is transfered to the German ambassy. There the document including the secret annex (dividing Poland) is leaked to the American ambassy in Moscow and it's content sent to Roosevelt.

If Roosevelt had been interested in peace he had warned the Poles about what was about to happen, namely that Germany and Russia were on the verge of partitioning their country and that nobody could do anything about it and that maybe they better give in in the Danzig issue. But Roosevelt said nothing. Oh wait, he told the Poles to remain steadfast in the Danzig issue. So the Poles now knew they had the moral backing of both the UK and the USA. That moral backing btw was worthless in hindsight because the Poles would be willingly handed over to the Soviets by both the UK and the US after the war. So the independence of Poland was never the issue, neither for France, Britain or the US, just the pretext to hit the single country that had liberated itself from Jewish influence. And this was something the American Jews, with designs for world domination, did not like.

But wait a minute... the picture now has completely changed. Wer wollte den Krieg?, is the title of the video. Who wanted the War? We can answer that question now:

Roosevelt and his Jewish dominated government!

As early as september 1939 he already conspired for war with Germany, while Dolfie was still manouvering for getting his pre-Versailles Germany back, in his own charming little way. And it was Roosevelt who provoked the attack by Japan, by cutting of oil supplies and demanding impossible conditions.

Patrick Buchanan is wrong. It were not the Brits who started WW2. But Buchanan cannot say the truth because he cannot mention the Jews. The real masterminds of WW2 were situated in Washington: Roosevelt and his Jewish mob. The Brits were suckered into the war declaration against Germany because they wre pushed into it by the Jews, as Chamberlain revealed to Joseph Kennedy

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html

An important confirmation of the crucial role of Roosevelt and the Jews in pushing Britain into war comes from the diary of James V. Forrestal, the first U.S. Secretary of Defense. In his entry for 27 December 1945, he wrote:

Played golf today with [former Ambassador] Joe Kennedy. I asked him about his conversations with Roosevelt and [British Prime Minister] Neville Chamberlain from 1938 on. He said Chamberlain's position in 1938 was that England had nothing with which to fight and that she could not risk going to war with Hitler. Kennedy's view: That Hitler would have fought Russia without any later conflict with England if it had not been for [William] Bullitt's urging on Roosevelt in the summer of 1939 that the Germans must be faced down about Poland; neither the French nor the British would have made Poland a cause of war if it had not been for the constant needling from Washington. Bullitt, he said, kept telling Roosevelt that the Germans wouldn't fight; Kennedy that they would, and that they would overrun Europe. Chamberlain, he says, stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the war. In his telephone conversations with Roosevelt in the summer of 1939, the President kept telling him to put some iron up Chamberlain's backside.[29]

 

[TSR]

While my opponents still have to consider whether they are going to admit defeat in the PH question, the smarter ones will proceed with evaluating the consequences of this new insight.

.
May I suggest that no one even acknowledge any attempts by 9/11 to change the subject until he explains the Phillipine attack, and what this means to zir lies about PH?
.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Ah, so you've abandoned Pearl Harbor completely and gone back to something less challenging. Good for you. "A man has got to know his limitations."

 

[SpitfireIX]

So you seem to agree that that meeting took place. Fine.

Now, what other targets than PH could Roosevelt have had in mind?

Erm, the Philippines, Guam, and Wake island?


Also, please explain, in light of the following messages, how Kimmel and Short were not warned.


http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/EastWind/CNO-411127.html

Nov. 27, 1941

FROM: Chief of Naval Operations

ACTION: CinCAF, CinCPAC [Admiral Kimmel]

INFO: Cinclant, Spenavo

272337

This dispatch is to be considered a war warning. Negotiations with Japan looking toward stabilization of conditions in the Pacific have ceased and an aggressive move by Japan is expected within the next few days. The number and equipment of Japanese troops and the organization of naval task forces indicates an amphibious expedition against either the Philippines, Thai or Kra Peninsula or possibly Borneo. Execute an appropriate defensive deployment preparatory to carrying out the tasks assigned in WPL 46. Inform district and Army authorities. A similar warning is being sent by War Department.

Spenavo inform British. Continental districts Guam, Samoa directed take appropriate measures against sabotage.

Copy to WPD, War Dept. [bolding mine]

http://www.historyteacher.net/USProjects/DBQs2001/IsolationToIntervention-Waddingham.htm

From: War Department, Washington To: Army Hq. Hawaii Date: 27 Nov. 1941

War Department Msg No. 472 " Negotiations with Japan appear to be terminated to all practical purposes with only the barest possibilities that the Japanese Government might come back and offer to continue. Japanese future action unpredictable but hostile action possible at any moment. If hostilities cannot, repeat cannot be avoided the United States desires that Japan commit the first overt act. This policy should not, repeat not, be construed as restricting you to a course of action that might jeopardize your defense. Prior to hostile Japanese action you are directed to undertake such reconnaissance and other measures as you deem necessary but these measures shout be carried out so as not, repeat not, to alarm civil population or disclose intent. Report measures taken. Should hostilities occur you will carry out the tasks assigned in Rainbow Five [the Army's basic war plan] so far as they pertain to Japan. Limit dissemination of this highly secret information to minimum essential officers. [bolding mine]

 

[excaza]

I didn't even think it was possible to switch gears that fast

 

[Dave Rogers]

Patrick Buchanan is wrong.

First sensible thing you've said.

Dave

 

[uke2se]

Pearl Harbor in brief: US naval intelligence monitored Japanese radio transmissions, and found indications of an impending attack. Analyzing instructions sent to Japanese ambassadors in Washington, naval intelligence set the likely date for attack to Sunday, November 30, 1941. Briefins were held about what to do about the attack, and commands throughout the Pacific were put on alert. The attack didn't materialize.

Pondering whether naval intelligence had it wrong, alerts were issued throughout the following week, making soldiers weary and inattentive. When the attack finally came, on Sunday December 7, early warnings failed to arrive in time, primarily due to the inefficient command system on Hawaii and the general confusion in Washington.

In short, the US suspected an attack, but didn't know where or exactly when. The jews had nothing to do with this.

 

[aggle-rithm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib2Mmim17aY
Roosevelt and his Jewish dominated government!

As early as september 1939 he already conspired for war with Germany, while Dolfie was still manouvering for getting his pre-Versailles Germany back, in his own charming little way. And it was Roosevelt who provoked the attack by Japan, by cutting of oil supplies and demanding impossible conditions.

Patrick Buchanan is wrong. It were not the Brits who started WW2. But Buchanan cannot say the truth because he cannot mention the Jews. The real masterminds of WW2 were situated in Washington: Roosevelt and his Jewish mob. The Brits were suckered into the war declaration against Germany because they wre pushed into it by the Jews, as Chamberlain revealed to Joseph Kennedy

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html

That last link was quite illuminating.

It spoke about the secret reports from Jerzy Potocki, Polish ambassador to the US, whose authenticity has been questioned and for which no originals exist.

First of all, I am puzzled as to why a Polish ambassador to the US would so strenuously tow the Nazi party line. The language is that of a Nazi, not a Pole. He speaks of an irrational "hatred of Chancellor Hitler" and Naziism and the dangers of "Jewery". If he were indeed a secret Nazi sympathizer, then why "out" himself by sending this report back to his superiors? Was Poland secretly pro-Nazi? If so, why not cave in to all German demands?

Let's assume that these documents were authentic, and they accurately reflected Potacki's views (Potacki himself said they were fakes, of course).

Just like our friend 9/11 Investigator, he can't name a single Jew. He names the big players in the public spotlight, but cannot identify any of the people who supposedly pull the strings.

Another big red flag is the fact that no one seems to take these reports seriously except for people who share 9/11's views...a few fringe anti-Semites, holocaust deniers, and historical revisionists. Tellingly, they all seem to copy and paste the same text and present it as if it were undeniable historical fact.

I know this proves nothing, but it's funny how no one else seems to think so.