One would intuitively think this but there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support it. There is also evidence that belonging to A.A. leads to a significant increase in binge drinking.
I have no doubt that increased binge drinking is true for virtually every relapse - AA or not.
To the naysayers...it works.
If you dont agree with it, dont go.
Not that hard a concept.
Yup.
One we haven't hit on in this thread is that A.A. and all 12 Step Programs are based on the disease model of alcoholism. There is no real evidence to suggest that this model is correct.
Except the World Health Organisation, the American Medical Association and other national authorities.
There are other programs out there that do not use this model and claim a higher success rate than A.A. Some of these claims result from studies done by independant researcher organization.
Fantastic!
Let's have them: Studies, organisations, models and statistics.
Other claims that A.A. makes which turn out to be untrue by their own admission:
1- A.A. is completely funded by memeber contributions. (A.A. stated in their annual report that if they had to rely on member contributions there would be no A.A.)
The first part sounds right, the second not so much (could you point that out to me please - the bit about "no AA" without other sources).
What is actually said in tradition seven is:
"Every AA group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions."
2- A.A. does not own propery or concern itself with money. (There's the $10,000,000.00 slush fund and properties of various sorts.)
Where is this said (bold)?
Finance isn't your area is it?
Slush funds and capital purchases are vastly different.
Oh, and evidence please.
??
A.A.'s claim of 100% success is at best 5%.
100%? I insist you support this ridiculous lie.
- But wait! The spontaneous remission rate, that is those who stop drinking entirely without treatment, is 5%. That means that drinkers are twice as likely to quit if they don't attend A.A.
And even if this were true, so what? More people are getting sober and that's a good thing
Some people keep quoting the groups primary purpose, but what exactly does AA say about the members primary purpose? Bill W tell us: "At the moment we are trying to put our lives in order. But this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us. "
Two things here:
1/. (As outlined at least a dozen times) - Bill was one man with his own opinion.
2/. What do you think "doing god's work" means?
Once again, take the god out of AA and what you end up with is something else - something not AA -that is also associated with some people getting and staying sober.
But it's no longer AA.
You keep saying this but you are wrong everytime.
Keep in mind AA also owns a very large multistory office building in NY - situated on prime NY business real estate - easily valued in the 10's (if not 100's) of millions of dollars.
Owning property is a crime?
Would they have been better served paying rent all these years?
Have you the balance sheets for AA to support this claim (I did not pick it up in the reports provided)?
What is your point?
I remembered what I think is the universal heresy that will get you kicked out of AA -- and I look to AA Alfie to confirm or deny this.
It comes in the context of an after-meeting chat, an aside. Perhaps one or two senior members say these, or equivalent words to the heretic, "Your actions/presence is harming the sobriety of other members of the group." With further suggestions to change their ways or leave the group.
And this, again, makes me think that the object of worship is sobriety itself and only secondarily a higher power.
I have never seen anyone expelled from the fellowship.
The heretic (as you call him) is a 'power of example' to the other members. If they choose to share in a certain manner then that is their choice - what they share is their decision, and maybe it is important for them to share this stuff. That said, I have seen members given a 'hurry up' if they have talked too long, or asked to tone it down if their language was overly colourful.
If someones' sobriety is rocked by the words of another, they are not taking full responsibility for themselves and their recovery: these are called resentments, which are a key enemy for the alcoholic and one of our main triggers. They would - I hope - speak to their sponsor and/or other members. I expect the message they will be given is "take what you need, and leave the rest".
Cheers
