Ed All 43 videos "Second Hit"" [Explosion]at WTC 2: Plane or No Plane?

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jammonius said:
In post # 2598, I anticipated that the hardcore mindset of support of the common storyline of 9/11 would make it difficult for some posters here to understand where victims family members are actually coming from.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6161028&postcount=2598

In that post, I said that the following is considered typical of how victims family members actually think:

"I’ve discovered the system doesn’t work. I’m outraged. Not just that
my husband was murdered, but that three years later, nothing has
been done . . ..What 9/11 represented was a massive example of how
things don’t work. We have to be willing to stand up and fix this."

What you fail to grasp is that it is the victims family members who consider themselves to have been subjected to an attempt to pay them "hush money" and to hide information from them.

It is very telling, indeed, that the debunker side that pretends to express so much sympathy for victims hasn't got the foggiest clue where victims family members are actually coming from.

That is golden.

The fact is this, could a few of you who might not be too blinded by adherence to the common storyline but realize it: Actual victims are more sharply focused than are mere debunkers and dumb debunker websites. They have a true inspiration to find out what happened to their loved ones and they quickly learned that they were being given the run around and that nothing was as it appeared or was claimed to be.

Some debunkers might recall, for instance, that it was victims family members who were prime movers in getting any investigation at all into what happened. True, their efforts were stymied by the bogus 9/11 Commission and the fraudulent appearance of an investigation, resulting in a sham report.

But, to their credit, victims family members, have consistently led the fight to find out what happened on 9/11. Here, for instance, is a 2005 account of their then ongoing efforts in which they noted that the 9/11 Commission Report had yielded nothing much:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...933A1575BC0A9639C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

So, AJM, you are way off the mark in trying to use the "hush money" claim in the way you did in your quoted post. You appear to not know anything at all about where victims family membes are really coming from.



You appear to think the fact that there's never been a proper investigation of 9/11 by any competent and funded governmentally backed authority is a joke.

No, AJM, the joke is on you, based on your lame posting.



You are doing nothing more than perpetuating an illusion. There was no DNA identification of alleged passengers from an alleged jetliner crash in Shanksville, PA.

I won't ask you to source your claim. You won't. You can't; and, for alll I know, even if you could you probably wouldn't because you do not appear to place much importance on actual facts and provable claims based on your posts, including the one to which this one replies.

Once again, victims family members, now might be a good time to help set the record straight on where you folks are actually coming from.

Posters around here seem not to have the foggiest idea.
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Do you have any idea of how many family members are no planers?
 
X said:
We have a coherent narrative, which explains all the events and evidence without resorting to wild speculation and impossible technologies.
To date, truthers do not.

No-plane hypotheses cannot even begin to explain the vast amount of evidence supporting the crashes of the 4 aircraft. It is the territory of fools. People more concerned with hating the government and pretending to be more "enlightened" than the "sheeple" than they are with actually understanding or learning anything.

They are insane.

Do you have a theory that explains all the evidence?
Or do you want to pretend that it was all faked, and that the victims are actually living on an island somewhere, having faked their death (willingly or not), and that somehow the thousands of people and massive budget such a plot would have required have stayed silent and undiscovered?

Do you really want to be the next to latch on to Jammonius' crazy-train?
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Ah.....Bin-Laden and the 19 hijackers again. Sounds a bit like Ali-Baba and the 40 thieves doesn't it ? lol.

You seem to be a man of strong opinons ? Do you want to have a go a the post in the hyperlink ? None of your colleagues did.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6160887&postcount=2596 hyperlink.
 
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bill smith said:
This is an older ersion of the same thing.

"Propaganda is not meant to fool the intelligencia, it is merely meant to provide them an excuse to avoid seeing ugly realities they’d sooner not believe.”

That would be the bulk of American citizens who actively avoid recognising the 9/11 problems and are glad to grasp the straws you guys push into their hands so that they may keep their eyes blessedly shut.

But like that crazy guy on the subway whose eyes you do not want to meet- sooner ar later you will have to look him in the eye and take the consequences.

It's that or live the lie forever with everybody else on Earth knowing you are lying and living a lie.300 million people. Sheltering a handful of mass-murderers.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
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What's funny and sad is that is the same standard pathetic game all cults deploy to try and validate their insanity.

In reality it's not the majority of people on earth that are living in a lies, it is not us living in fear either. That's another juvenile attempt reverse psychology.

It is you cult drones living in lies, consumed by lies and constantly spewing lies. Lies that are so nonsensical, so transparent that it's pathetically obvious to the rest of us.

You cult drones are also so paranoid and consumed by fear due to a severe lack of any understanding about reality or the world around you. You are the ones running around regularly proclaiming "the end is near" and finding every event and situation to be some sinister evil plot out to get you. Making repeated predictions of doom and gloom around every corner, that are always completely wrong.

It's comical that cult drones think they can just flip it around like noone will notice or remember that you are the ones that are in a lunatic fringe group.

Every cult and most religions play this game, you aren't doing anything new, most of what you say aren't even your words. These are old tricks and scam tactics that you're just regurgitating and reciting like a programmed cult drone under control.

You are the one's sheltering mass murderers and playing all sorts of games over a tragedy. Many of you make no secret that you wish to even see and participate in alot more bloodshed.
 
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Jam should love reading this:

911 'No-Planes' Conspirators Seek To Sabotage Truth

http://www.rense.com/general74/911s.htm

No planers are propaganda agents out to discredit and sabotage those who want the truth out.

And they make it clear that one reason they "hate" all the "truthlings" -- whom they slander as "racists" and "white supremacists" (always totally wrong -- a lie that is the exact opposite of the truth) -- they always heap their contempt on anyone whose findings point to Zionists or Israel being involved in 9-11.
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bill smith said:
Have a look at this video from around the 50 second mark until about the 01:30 mark.

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/news/watch/v224407KjaBKxn6#

Do you think that shock was playing a part when the lady seemed sonfused about whether the explosion (interestingly another explosion)really was in the other building ? And the other lady too when she said '' Apparently it is in the other building ' '' We just saw....(other lady interrupts)...another live picture...of.......(first lady very hesitantly) a..a..plane crashing into.....another plane ''...Around the 1:26 mark there is a clear uplift in their confidence presumably when they got confirmation on their earpieces.

Do you agree that it looks as if the ladies had been told to expect a plane and when it didn't appear on their screen made a very poor job of covering ?
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No.
 
Compus has engaged in more blatant propaganda posting

The website Compus has posted from in post # 2619 is nothing more and nothing less than a propaganda website based on how it describes itself:

rideacrossam.jpg



See: http://www.airlineride.org/bio.20060416.php

It appears nothing is going to deter Compus from relying on blatant propaganda for the purpose of trying to claim Flight 175 crashed into the South Tower. Compus apparently cannot recognize that reliance upon propaganda merely confirms there are no valid sources of factual information that can be pointed to for purposes of establishing a jetliner hit the South Tower.

Thanks, Compus, for confirming the validity of the NO PLANE claims that are being made in this thread.
 
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bill smith said:
like I said I have not really studied that though 9/11 Island could aybe be one interesting possibility. There may be other possibilities too- who knows. Have you any suggestions yourself ?
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So you don't know what happened to them if they didn't crash into the towers?
 
9/11 Chewy Defense said:
Jam should love reading this:

911 'No-Planes' Conspirators Seek To Sabotage Truth

http://www.rense.com/general74/911s.htm
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Chewy,

Well, ok, a response may be in order here. In this thread, there have been a few references to the overall idea that 9/11 TRUTHERS disagree with NO PLANERS, or variations on that same theme. Another variant is that 9/11 TRUTHERS claim NO PLANERS are seeking to "split" the "TRUTH MOVEMENT" or "make the truth movement look bad" and so on.

I don't think I have replied to that grouping of posts up to now because the subject is probably a derail and is not that important to me. That said, it might be useful to our Lurkers and to our Victims Family Members to see a reply to that overall claim.

The source that Chewy relies on starts out as follows:

"By Dick Eastman 11-4-6

Think about it. While the real investigators take the evidence and link them to men in the Defense Department and in Israel -- the no-planers remain stuck on the assertion that all the 45 video recordings were faked and that all the witnesses who saw the planes are liars and the just make the vaguest totally detached references to "the perps" or just "perps"."

I think our Fallacy Vigilantes will agree with me that Eastman has constructed a "strawman" in that he has said what NO PLANERS say without sourcing or quoting an actual NO PLANE claim.

I here assert that Eastman's construct bears no resemblance to the claims I have made in either this thread, the Dick Oliver threads or the Flight 93/Plymouth Wheelcover threads.

This one deals with what we here think are the "All43" videos plus one, making a total of 44. Eastman references 45, which may have been derived from the 43 for the South Tower plus the 2 for the North, making 45. Whatever. The point is, I have specifically said some of the videos may be fake, in particular the one referred to as Chopper 5 is likely a fake. The one where the woman is heard screaming like she was getting ready to get whacked by Jason also seems fake, and there are others that appear to be fake, but not all of them appear to me to be dismissable on that basis.

I have also indicated holography as a possibility.

As to witnesses, Eastman has certainly utterly misstated my position on the matter. I have not only acknowledged there are some witnesses who claim they saw and heard a plane, I have also indicated where the reliable ones can be found; namely, the Task Force Witness compilation.

But, I have also painstakingly pointed out that the majority of the verifiable, reliable witnesses all uniformly say they saw and heard an explosion, not a plane. So, on the issue of witnesses, the NO PLANE claim is advanced quite far and quite well on the basis of what the actual witnesses actually say. This is worth bearing in mind at all times: The NO PLANE claim is advanced, strengthened and strongly supported by what the actual witnesses actually say they saw and heard. Eastman appears not to be aware of this basic fact. Perhaps, he should be told to look at one of the several posts where I have summarized where the NO PLANE witnesses can be found, with specific source links:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6141983&postcount=38

I have also advanced the fact that there are no properly identified plane parts; no verified DNA; no authenticated passenger manifests, to name some of the actual evidence I have relied on in support of the NO PLANE claim. It might also be important to remind Eastman that there is no investigatory finding where the issue of planes and/or plane crashes has been factually established on the basis of proper investigatory process, with proper documentation, that is available to the public.

Instead, as we have seen in recent posts in this thread, the claims relied on to support the PLANE SPOTTER position are propagandistic stories that have nothing to do with proper investigation. None of the claims found in such sources counts as evidence of plane crashes.

In summary, what I have actually relied on in support of the NO PLANE claim bears no resemblance at all to the constructed claim that Eastman raised up and then knocked down in the little article sourced by Chewy.

With all of that having been said, it is not my intention to get into an argument with the "TRUTH MOVEMENT" one way or another. I will continue to offer up the proof of claim that supports the NO PLANE claim and I encourage others, in the TRUTH MOVEMENT or out of the said movement to continue to support their claims as well as they can.
 
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jammonius said:
The website Compus has posted from in post # 2619 is nothing more and nothing less than a propaganda website based on how it describes itself:

http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/all43posting/rideacrossam.jpg?t=1280168659


See: http://www.airlineride.org/bio.20060416.php

It appears nothing is going to deter Compus from relying on blatant propaganda for the purpose of trying to claim Flight 175 crashed into the South Tower. Compus apparently cannot recognize that reliance upon propaganda merely confirms there are no valid sources of factual information that can be pointed to for purposes of establishing a jetliner hit the South Tower.

Thanks, Compus, for confirming the validity of the NO PLANE claims that are being made in this thread.
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2/10
This reeks of desperation. You can do "better".
 
bill smith said:
Ah.....Bin-Laden and the 19 hijackers again. Sounds a bit like Ali-Baba and the 40 thieves doesn't it ? lol.
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I did not mention Bin Laden or the hijackers. (What does the "lol" signify? That you find the notion of an aircraft being hijacked comically absurd?)
I was referring to the fact that 4 aircraft crashed that day.
Two, one into each of the Twin Towers.
One into the Pentagon.
One into the ground at Shanksville.

Radar confirms this. Debris confirms this. DNA from the passengers at those locations confirms this. Eyewitness testimony confirms this. Etc.

That actual aircraft crashed in those locations on that day is the only explanation that makes sense.
The no-planers have to deny all that evidence, in favour of a massively complicated conspiracy relying on
- technology that does not (and often can not) exist,
- thousands of conspirators who have never spoken out (look into the history of real conspiracies to see how difficult silence is to maintain
- an execution flawless enough to fool the world's experts (you know, people with actual training, experience and expertise in the relevant fields)
- passengers/victims willing to go along with the charade, and never try to contact their families and loved ones.

Frankly, it would have been easier to crash aircraft into the buildings...


Until and unless the no-planers can put together a remotely-plausible scenario (right now, I'd settle for it being possible vis-à-vis the laws of physics), their hypotheses are not worth consideration.

But if you want to buy into them, be my guest. You are equally free to believe in the ET Corn God language. Just don't expect the rest of us to give such ideas any credibility at all until they can demonstrate a grounding in reality.



bill smith said:
You seem to be a man of strong opinions? Do you want to have a go a the post in the hyperlink? None of your colleagues did.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6160887&postcount=2596 hyperlink.
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"Not really", "Yes", and "When did you stop beating your wife?". In that order.
 
bill smith said:
Ah.....Bin-Laden and the 19 hijackers again. Sounds a bit like Ali-Baba and the 40 thieves doesn't it ? lol.

You seem to be a man of strong opinons ? Do you want to have a go a the post in the hyperlink ? None of your colleagues did.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6160887&postcount=2596 hyperlink.
Click to expand...

Interesting how most Truthers refuse to believe Muslims could have been behind the 9/11 mass murder, but they are all to willing to blame the Jews.
 
Titanic Explorer said:
Interesting how most Truthers refuse to believe Muslims could have been behind the 9/11 mass murder, but they are all to willing to blame the Jews.
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I haven't mentioned the Jews. Only you have done that. Truthers on the jref almost never mention the Jews in the 9/1 context even though debunkers often say that they do,

It's almost as if you are trying to get us to blame the poor Jews or something.
 
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I see jammonius has failed to answer my question and instead wants to continue twisting the words of the families. Fine, I'll try once more:

Your beautiful daughter is abducted and murdered in a most ghastly manner. Evidently she suffered horribly. The police know who did it, but you refuse to accept their word. They offer you money to shut you up.

What's your price?

Oh and Wally Miller is my source for the whereabouts of the remains of Mr Felt and his fellow passengers. He's identified them all and sent them home to their families. He said so himself.

Was Wally Miller also paid to shut up?
 
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The crew and passengers of United Airlines Flight 175

On the morning of September 11 2001, United Airlines Flight 175 was flying to Los Angeles from Boston, and was hijacked by Islamic terrorists. Shortly after taking off it was deliberately flown into the South Tower of the World Trade Centre, New York.

59 passengers and crew were on board (not counting the hijackers).

All were killed.


UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175 CREW

Amy N. Jarret, 28, was one of seven flight attendants on Flight 175. Amy lived with her father and two brothers in North Smithfield, Rhode Island.

Her long time boyfriend, Kyle Rusconi, said, "I told her she had to start thinking more about her own needs, but she liked taking care of others.....We assumed we would get married when it came time to have children. We just needed to be in the same place a little longer."

Her father, Aram Jarret, said his daughter was hopelessly in love with her college boyfriend and that a glittering diamond engagement ring seemed only months away. She was a rabid Notre Dame football fan who would call her dad in tears if the Fighting Irish were losing at halftime.

344914c4de1f2184b5.jpg


"She was wonderful," he said.


Sources:- HERE HERE


Immutable facts. Unassailable reason.


Compus
 
The Platypus said:
What's funny and sad is that is the same standard pathetic game all cults deploy to try and validate their insanity.

In reality it's not the majority of people on earth that are living in a lies, it is not us living in fear either. That's another juvenile attempt reverse psychology.

It is you cult drones living in lies, consumed by lies and constantly spewing lies. Lies that are so nonsensical, so transparent that it's pathetically obvious to the rest of us.

You cult drones are also so paranoid and consumed by fear due to a severe lack of any understanding about reality or the world around you. You are the ones running around regularly proclaiming "the end is near" and finding every event and situation to be some sinister evil plot out to get you. Making repeated predictions of doom and gloom around every corner, that are always completely wrong.

It's comical that cult drones think they can just flip it around like noone will notice or remember that you are the ones that are in a lunatic fringe group.

Every cult and most religions play this game, you aren't doing anything new, most of what you say aren't even your words. These are old tricks and scam tactics that you're just regurgitating and reciting like a programmed cult drone under control.

You are the one's sheltering mass murderers and playing all sorts of games over a tragedy. Many of you make no secret that you wish to even see and participate in alot more bloodshed.
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Can you be more explicit about what I have highlighted please ?
 
bill smith said:
Ah.....Bin-Laden and the 19 hijackers again. Sounds a bit like Ali-Baba and the 40 thieves doesn't it ? lol.

You seem to be a man of strong opinons ? Do you want to have a go a the post in the hyperlink ? None of your colleagues did.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6160887&postcount=2596 hyperlink.
Click to expand...


Bin Laden and the 19 hijackers involvement in 9/11 has been proven without a shadow of doubt. Only trutherbots like you reject reality.

What is your proof they were not involved?
 
CompusMentus said:
On the morning of September 11 2001, United Airlines Flight 175 was flying to Los Angeles from Boston, and was hijacked by Islamic terrorists. Shortly after taking off it was deliberately flown into the South Tower of the World Trade Centre, New York.

59 passengers and crew were on board (not counting the hijackers).

All were killed.



UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175 CREW

Amy N. Jarret, 28, was one of seven flight attendants on Flight 175. Amy lived with her father and two brothers in North Smithfield, Rhode Island.

Her long time boyfriend, Kyle Rusconi, said, "I told her she had to start thinking more about her own needs, but she liked taking care of others.....We assumed we would get married when it came time to have children. We just needed to be in the same place a little longer."

Her father, Aram Jarret, said his daughter was hopelessly in love with her college boyfriend and that a glittering diamond engagement ring seemed only months away. She was a rabid Notre Dame football fan who would call her dad in tears if the Fighting Irish were losing at halftime.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/344914c4de1f2184b5.jpg[/qimg]

"She was wonderful," he said.


Sources:- HERE HERE


Immutable facts. Unassailable reason.


Compus
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Jammy and Bill, what do you think happened to Amy Jarret?
 
Titanic Explorer said:
Jammy and Bill, what do you think happened to Amy Jarret?
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With the passing of the years the pain has lessened and I can now be fairly dispassionate about the poor passengers. So I respectfully put the personalities to one side and carry on with the technical detail of exposing 9/11 in every aspect that I can. Difficult as it is.
 
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