Bigfoot: The Patterson Gimlin Film - Part 3

[Skeptical Greg]

The Butt?! Did you say, the Butt ?!

( With apologies to Apeman ... )

 

[Óðinn]

This should be closer to actual scale. And I thought Patty had a big butt.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Uhh, I think you forgot to account for the lowered crotch on the suit on the left .. We really expect better from you ..
Been sitting in on some of Sweaty's lectures ?

I wonder if Bill has calculated the odds of a real live Bigfoot having a butt that is almost a perfect match for a gorilla costume ?

 

[Óðinn]

Nice try Greg. Have it your way. Here is your original image with the legs included. Look right to you?

 

[SweatyYeti]

Expanding on what I posted yesterday, in the 'Munns Thread'...

There is no 'mystery' as to why the apparent shape of Patty's head changes, as she turns and looks at Roger....it's just that her head/skull has 'compound angles' to it's shape.

....here are a couple of images of a gorilla's head...viewed from two different angles....showing different degrees of sloping to the skull, between the front, and the sides...

And a comparison of Patty's head, and a gorilla's....from similar viewing angles...

Roger was GOOD......danged good.


(Fun Fact: Did you know that you can produce that realistic contour to the back of the neck, and shoulders, by simply stuffing an old pair of football shoulder pads inside of a Morris rug?! It's weird...and not necessarily intuitve....but TRUE, nonetheless!!)

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Nice try Greg. Have it your way. Here is your original image with the legs included. Look right to you?

I'd say nice try yourself, but it was anything but...

The legs have nothing to do with my claim..
Are you saying Patterson could not have used the butt from that suit without including the unmodified legs and torso ?

Try using the full length pictures of both subjects..

Charlie Gemora was 5' 4" .. Make Patty 6' 1" - 3"

I isolated the butts in my comp, for illustration purposes ..


Your scaling method would invoke your wrath if anyone else tried it..


Why do you, like so many other bleevers, have trouble admitting the similarity of those butts is intriguing at the least, and damning for any remotely objective observer ?

 

[DennyT]

it's not just the butt...the parallel lines across the upper thigh are strikingly similar.

 

[DennyT]

O, why did you draw in the lower leg and foot in that manner?

 

[DennyT]

Expanding on what I posted yesterday, in the 'Munns Thread'...

....here are a couple of images of a gorilla's head...viewed from two different angles....showing different degrees of sloping to the skull, between the front, and the sides...


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Patty/GorillaHeadAngles1.jpg[/qimg]



And a comparison of Patty's head, and a gorilla's....from similar viewing angles...


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Patty/PattyGorillaHead1.jpg[/qimg]

Roger was GOOD......danged good.

exactly; he was danged good. I am glad we can all agree on that. He was a careful craftsman. Bob Gimlin tells us he went to the zoo and studied gorillas. He drew a sasquatch for publication.

But now, strangely, you lapse into inaccurate sarcasm, suggesting the opposite, that he was careless:

(Fun Fact: Did you know that you can produce that realistic contour to the back of the neck, and shoulders, by simply stuffing an old pair of football shoulder pads inside of a Morris rug?!

Next you admit the obvious contradiction in your statements:

It's weird...and not necessarily intuitve....but TRUE, nonetheless!!)

Patterson was not at all a careless craftsman who would have "simply stuffed an old pair of football shoulder pads inside of a Morris rug." This was not a Saturday afternoon project. He had time, skill and motivation, and he was involved in a film project that spanned months.

And so he did a pretty good job of imitating the general contours of the body of a gorilla, and (with his months of experience with filming) knowing that, with the distance involved, resolution, and the shakiness, that the flaws would not be very evident.

I think we can also agree that it was harder in those days, however, to make a skin tight, formfitting costume, simply because of the lack of a four way stretch fabric. So as we have become more able to stabilize and zoom in on the costume, we see a lot of the problems that couldn't be overcome, even by the careful craftsmanship of Roger Patterson.

Besides the obvious problems in the butt and the thigh, you can see where the shoulder pads extend out past the upper arm, producing the misshapen imitation of the deltoid shoulder muscle, the donut-shaped mass around the middle of the upper arm, etc. And if you look closely none of the supposed muscles show the changes in shape that would be expected during contraction and relaxation of real muscles; the fake muscles just sit there. The reported "rippling" is just the general shaking that would be expected from movement of the subject and the contraction of the subject's real muscles underneath the costume.

Roger was good. We are all agreed on that. He did a great job of altering and fitting a basic costume so that it would look decent to the untrained eye (and to the brain if preconceptions were present) under the carefully chosen filming conditions.

 

[Óðinn]

I'd say nice try yourself, but it was anything but...

The legs have nothing to do with my claim..
Are you saying Patterson could not have used the butt from that suit without including the unmodified legs and torso ?

Come on, do you really think Roger used the butt from a Gemora suit?

Try using the full length pictures of both subjects..

Charlie Gemora was 5' 4" .. Make Patty 6' 1" - 3"

I isolated the butts in my comp, for illustration purposes ..

But the scale is all wrong, both suits are cropped, the Gemora suit is blurred and coloured to match Patty's butt. You could probably make my Aunt Ursula's butt look like Patty's under those conditions. What's the point?

Your scaling method would invoke your wrath if anyone else tried it..

Ok, here are the full body images. Patty's walking height is approx Gemora's standing height. I took some artistic license filling out Patty's legs. NOW compare their butts.

Why do you, like so many other bleevers, have trouble admitting the similarity of those butts is intriguing at the least, and damning for any remotely objective observer ?

Because it's a pointless, deceiving comparison that accomplishes what exactly? I want the PGF to get solved too, but not by suggesting that Roger cannibalized a Gemora suit...for its butt for cripes sake. Patty's booty is the one thing that looks nothing like Roe's bigfoot. So did Roger have a butt fetish? Oh right, it was to fill out the Morris suit.

 

[SweatyYeti]

parnassus wrote:

Patterson was not at all a careless craftsman who would have "simply stuffed an old pair of football shoulder pads inside of a Morris rug."

Tell that to Heironimus and kitakaze....because neither one of them seem to realize that the contour of the back of Patty's head/neck/shoulder area requires some specially-designed inner-core padding...(of considerable thickness)....NOT, as you are agreeing to....simply football shoulder pads stuffed underneath a raggedy Morris rug.

 

[Correa Neto]

OMFG!

That Gemora gorilla costume! Look at the upper and lower leg proportions! Look at the joint locations!
Not-human! No human could have those legs!
Its a real gorilla or some unknown great ape!

 

[Óðinn]

O, why did you draw in the lower leg and foot in that manner?

For illustration purposes..

 

[Kilaak Kommander]

That Gemora gorilla costume! Look at the upper and lower leg proportions! Look at the joint locations!
Not-human! No human could have those legs!
Its a real gorilla or some unknown great ape!

It's striking how much thicker and bulkier the Gemora creature is. We keep hearing that Patty can't be a man in a suit because of her sheer bulk. Yet the Gemora suit makes Patty look anorexic by comparison.

 

[Óðinn]

OMFG!

That Gemora gorilla costume! Look at the upper and lower leg proportions! Look at the joint locations!
Not-human! No human could have those legs!
Its a real gorilla or some unknown great ape!

I know you're being facetious but you're right, the leg proportions betray the Gemora suit. The knee joint isn't hidden and the lowered crotch attempts to shorten the legs. But it doesn't (and can't) hide the knee joint. Must be a suit! Patty's leg proportions certainly aren't hidden. Are you suggesting her leg proportions are not-human?

 

[tsig]

It wasn't good.......


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/PattyElbowAnalysisThree/PattyWideUpperbody1.jpg[/qimg]



Patty's hand is well away from the side of her leg.


LTC wrote:



Good eyes!!






Save them for your coloring books, LTC...


(Note: If the fingers bend.....well, you know...)

That ink blot looks a lot like a hawk sitting in a tree.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Come on, do you really think Roger used the butt from a Gemora suit?

Sure do ...

But the scale is all wrong, both suits are cropped, the Gemora suit is blurred and coloured to match Patty's butt.

Where did you get the information that it was colored to match Patty's but ?

You're kidding, right?
You have eyes of a 5' 4" and 6' - + subject essentially parallel ..

How did you locate the knee joint ? Getting more help from Sweaty ?

 

[RayG]

NOW compare their butts.

I see similarities.



RayG

 

[SweatyYeti]

It's striking how much thicker and bulkier the Gemora creature is.

We keep hearing that Patty can't be a man in a suit because of her sheer bulk. Yet the Gemora suit makes Patty look anorexic by comparison.

'Bulkiness" in a suit...works both ways....it can be an asset, and it can be a liability, in trying to create an exceptionally wide/bulky body.

I've posted graphics, already, demonstrating the significant reduction in the space...(the 'arm gap')....between the inside of the upper-arm and the outside of the upper torso/chest.

The Blevins' padded-suit images I posted demonstrate the principle, very nicely.



If the Gemora suit has thickly padded arms, and a padded upper-torso....then, without a doubt, there would be significantly less space left between the upper arm and the body...(with the arm swung out, to the side)....than there would be on an unpadded body.

 

[Óðinn]

Sure do ...

It would be interesting to hear from suitmakers how probable it was that Roger took a section from a Gemora gorilla suit butt and added it to his own suit. That would imply that Roger intended to put that big ole butt on Patty. Interesting. And what was the Morris suit butt, chopped liver?

Where did you get the information that it was colored to match Patty's but ?

The original photo wasn't so blurry or grayscale, was it?

You're kidding, right?
You have eyes of a 5' 4" and 6' - + subject essentially parallel ..

This has been the most frustrating concept to get across regarding Patty's height. All this "under 5 feet tall" business using posers and stacking up the "foot ruler" to measure her height.

The average person's height is reduced by 8-10% while walking. If you are 6 feet tall, your walking height can vary between 5' 8" & 5' 5". Now if you're taking 41" steps then your walking height is reduced +12%. I wish one other person would verify this. If you are ~6 feet tall, stand against a wall, space your feet 41" apart, bend your knees, stoop forward and measure your height. You could be as short as 5' 3". Now how tall was Gemora again and why WOULDN'T their eyes line up?

How did you locate the knee joint ? Getting more help from Sweaty ?

LOL, I located the knee joint by assuming Gemora was in there and that he was a human, with avg proportions. Patty's knee joints are evident.