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Bigfoot: The Patterson Gimlin Film - Part 3

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... but when he's sitting next to a horse after a long day of Bigfoot tracking we get to see the British.

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WP:

"Camera starts occur at F1 (starts filming Patty), F95, F191, F193, F234 and F267. "

Correction. You mistook the frame count for the start frame number. Correct info for start #6 is as follows:

Start #6 - (at frame VFC 687) This camera start goes to the end, frame #953, where the unloading of the roll causes some edge washout (shown below).

267 frames - 16.68 sec./11.12 sec.

Tube:

"This is old news to many, but if Bill Munns is reading this, perhaps he can ask Pat Patterson what, if any, still photos or films she may have taken of Roger Patterson. "

If I have a chance to visit Mrs. Patterson again, and review with her the research I've done on Roger's other footage, I will ask her this. Thank you. No schedule as yet, but hopefully in the near future.


LTC8K6:

"Wait a minute, I thought Rog was using a mobilgrip?

That also allows the lock to work so you don't have to hold the trigger."

The grip you illustrated, with the cable release device, will not work on a four position trigger lever, which requires positive push and pull actuation, such as a K-100 camera requires, to operate all it's trigger settings.

Bill
 
Bill Munns said:
WP:

"Camera starts occur at F1 (starts filming Patty), F95, F191, F193, F234 and F267. "

Correction. You mistook the frame count for the start frame number. Correct info for start #6 is as follows:

Start #6 - (at frame VFC 687) This camera start goes to the end, frame #953, where the unloading of the roll causes some edge washout (shown below).

267 frames - 16.68 sec./11.12 sec.
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Thanks. The corrected is...

Camera starts occur at F1 (starts filming Patty), F95, F191, F193, F234 and F687.

will not work on a four position trigger lever, which requires positive push and pull actuation
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So your thinking is that Roger actually did stop/start the camera 5 times before the reel exhausted? He was experienced with this camera as well. That is really bizarre. It's suspicious too. We have a film of what is supposed to be a creature that has never been confirmed in several centuries. Vegas and Jimmy the Greek would put everything on it being a hoax. Then we find out that the little con man bangs away at the shutter like a woodpecker? WTF?

Bill, I'm really stunned that you think this is a Bigfoot.
 
WP:

"So your thinking is that Roger actually did stop/start the camera 5 times before the reel exhausted? "

This is mechanical fact, not what I think. The combination of visual interruptions and first frame over-exposures cannot be explained otherwise.

"It's suspicious too. "

Suspicion is in the mind of the beholder. As a person who has operated 16mm cameras for documentaries and in spontaneous circumstances, and as a person who has operated the K-100 camera itself for filming tests, I don't find the starts and stops in any way suspicious. Your millage will vary.


"Bill, I'm really stunned that you think this is a Bigfoot."

This apparently has been your position for 2 1/2 years. I applaud your consistancy.

Bill
 
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William Parcher said:
... but when he's sitting next to a horse after a long day of Bigfoot tracking we get to see the British.

[qimg]http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/william_parcher/7bdbfd4e.jpg[/qimg]
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No disrespect to The Gun That Won The West, but I'd rather have the Enfield if I had to blast a Sasquatch. The Winchester was just for show for a close-up with the casts. The casts, the wooden porch, the Winchester. It's a the visual. The Enfield would have looked out of place. He might have used the Winchester for the fake Ape Canyon shot, but I would guess he could only get the rifle for a day and would have it back in Harvey's shop before closing. That shot is at night.

Nevermind that, though. What is really interesting to me is Roger's relationship with Harvey Anderson. Five years prior to those shots being taken for Roger's '66 book, Roger admitted he was a hoaxer to Anderson. I imagine Anderson lent Roger the rifle and was thinking about what Roger had said to him about dying of cancer and leaving something for his wife.

One area that I am working on for Walking With Bigfoot is to get a better picture of the hoaxing Roger was doing around Yakima in the years prior to the PGF.
 
Kitakaze, you are now following these things more closely than I am.

Is the Tampico that Florence Showman refers to the same as "South Fork of the Ahtanum, 20 miles west of Yakima" that her daughter Bobbie refers to?"

They both claim to have been there when Florence threw gasoline on Patterson's campfire, and was later claimed by Patterson to have been taken at Ape Canyon.
 
William Parcher said:
It isn't enough to ask him where it was filmed.
We want to know if it is the Patty trackway or a faked demo trackway (both were at Bluff Creek).
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Sure, I would certainly ask Bob for those details.



If it is a fake, then when was it filmed and where (in relation to the Patty sandbar). What did you guys do with the plaster casts from the demo tracks? Etc. Etc.

You see, there really are dozens of questions to be asked of Gimlin when he is shown that picture. Then we move on to the camera panning of the tracks. Are those Patty tracks or the demo trackway? Etc. Etc.
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I doubt I'd be able to ask him a whole 'battery' of questions, though. It's a very easy-going, good-time kind of atmosphere there, at the Conference....asking Bob a lot of questions, looking for a lot of small details would probably come across as an interrogation, from a skeptical viewpoint.
And Bob's interest, these days, is simply hangin' out with us "believers", and enjoying the positive responses he gets, from us. :)


Not that I wouldn't like to see Bob be interviewed, and asked about a lot of these details. He's got a lot of valuable information, in his head....for sure! (And he ain't gettin' any younger.)
 
The grip you illustrated, with the cable release device, will not work on a four position trigger lever, which requires positive push and pull actuation, such as a K-100 camera requires, to operate all it's trigger settings.

Bill
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Thanks, but I already knew that and already addressed it. It's just been a while since I have discussed the mobilgrip, the motor attachment point, and the hand crank attachment here at JREF.
 
There shouldn't be any washout even if you unload in broad daylight...

There's nothing in the manuals about loading or unloading in darkness. There are opaque sections at the beginning and end of the spool and the spool is larger than the roll. This pretty much prevents exposure unless you do something really stupid.

They instruct you that the usable film is gone when the counter reaches zero and that you need to run off the trailer before removing the spool and to process the roll as soon as possible.

Nothing about a darkroom, or darkness, or ponchos...
 
Bill, is there any way that an edited (cut and spliced) film could, when copied to another roll (the one you examined for example), display a feature that could be mistaken for a stop/start?
 
SweatyYeti said:
Sure, I would certainly ask Bob for those details.

I doubt I'd be able to ask him a whole 'battery' of questions, though. It's a very easy-going, good-time kind of atmosphere there, at the Conference....asking Bob a lot of questions, looking for a lot of small details would probably come across as an interrogation, from a skeptical viewpoint.
And Bob's interest, these days, is simply hangin' out with us "believers", and enjoying the positive responses he gets, from us. :)

Not that I wouldn't like to see Bob be interviewed, and asked about a lot of these details. He's got a lot of valuable information, in his head....for sure! (And he ain't gettin' any younger.)
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In general, the PGF believers seem rather uncurious about the whole stack of inconsistencies and contradictions involved in the PGF. That is to say, they seem disinterested in questioning Gimlin on the things that he can provide answers for. They appear walk on eggshells in his presence.

There are dozens of questions that need to be asked. His responses to those questions are likely to bring more questions. But it isn't going to happen. You don't do that with Bob Gimlin.

I think Gimlin's refusal to answer skeptics questions and the existence of the GimlinGuard is simple. The film is obviously a hoax and they know it. Gimlin could not withstand questioning and examination by a highly-informed skeptic. He refuses because he is fundamentally an honest man. That's ironic isn't it? Well, he knows he would get owned because his ability to make stuff up only goes so far. He also knows that answering "I don't remember" to 15 different questions isn't going to work very well.
 
Heavy-duty Bipto the owner and King of the BFF talking in June 2003 in a PGF poll thread...

bipto on BFF said:
Fact is, the PG film and the subsequest investigation of the film site are the very best bigfoot evidence ever presented. Hardley anybody who's in this field thinks it's anything other than what it is purported to be: a sasquatch walking across a creek bed.

This is not to say one cannot have doubts about it. Some have what they feel are legitimate questions, and that's fine. I just wanted to estabish that this is nearly universally accepted as gospel proof by anyone willing to really look at it. For the most part, the only people casting doubts against the film anymore are the uninformed, attention seekers, or loonies.

Please note I am not calling anyone on this forum an attention seeker or a loony. Also note, that even though I am in an obvious snit right about now, I continue to understand that this is a forum and that different opinions and ideas are always welcome. Sorry if I offend anyone.
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It's from a Krantz book which I don't have (I have no Bigfoot books). I'm pretty sure that RayG has posted the exact quote from the book. I'll see what I can find.

Dahinden also spoke about Roger telling him about doing a fake trackway.
 
Here we go...

Page 32 of Big Footprints by Grover S. Krantz 1992 2nd paragraph:

Krantz said:
The shape of a footprint can be dug into the ground with the fingers and/or a hand tool, the interior pressed flat, and it can then be photographed or cast in plaster. My first footprint cast was made by a student in just this manner (Fig.10). Roger Patterson told me he did this once in order to get a movie of himself pouring a plaster cast for the documentary he was making. (A few days later, he filmed the actual Sasquatch; See Chapter 4).
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Another quote worth noting...

Krantz said:
Titmus [the following day] noted that four tracks showed clear evidence of having been cast when he arrived, but Patterson claimed to have cast only two. I [Krantz] can find no one who knows anything about the others.
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Gimlin said in a recent radio show...

While at Bluff Creek, Patterson was not doing any filming for his documentary.

But Krantz said...

Roger Patterson told me he did this once in order to get a movie of himself pouring a plaster cast for the documentary he was making.

Gimlin needs to have this put under his nose and tell us all about the fake demo trackway at Bluff Creek.
 
William Parcher said:
Gimlin said in a recent radio show...

While at Bluff Creek, Patterson was not doing any filming for his documentary.

But Krantz said...

Roger Patterson told me he did this once in order to get a movie of himself pouring a plaster cast for the documentary he was making.

Gimlin needs to have this put under his nose and tell us all about the fake demo trackway at Bluff Creek.
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Where in that quote is the word "trackway" mentioned? That would imply RP created 2 or more fake tracks, but why would he need more than 1 track for his movie? Maybe that's why we can't see any other tracks in that casting footage.
 
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