Obama declares war on Iran

SezMe said:
What is this, 1984? Black is white. Up is down. Virus lives in the real world.

Your assertions are just plain wrong. I have to wonder if I should invoke Poe's Law.
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Yeah or you could just prove that they're wrong.
 
You're confused. Virus isn't the nutjob who thinks that Obama declared war on Iran via an embargo. That is JihadJane. Virus and SezMe were talking about something else entirely.
 
my only post on Operation Ajax.

Mossadegh and the Shah were in a power struggle, and there was no perfect man for the US to side with. However, a Civil War between the Shah and Mossadegh would have been detrimental to US interests, so they sided with the Shah (who was not installed)
 
NWO Sentryman said:
my only post on Operation Ajax.

Mossadegh and the Shah were in a power struggle, and there was no perfect man for the US to side with. However, a Civil War between the Shah and Mossadegh would have been detrimental to US interests, so they sided with the Shah (who was not installed)
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The CIA dispatched diplomats to manipulate the Shah into seizing dictatorial power, spent millions of US taxpayer dollars and provided significant material support inducing a crackpot, (literally) fascist agitator to conduct a revolution ostensibly on the Shah's behalf, seized local media stations to create and promote the fiction that Mossadegh* himself was attempting a coup so as to mobilize public support. Reports by no less than one of the agents involved - and released by the CIA itself - confirm this. (which may be found on-line if one spends an entire 10 seconds looking for them).

By any remotely reasonable definition of the word, the post-Mossadegh regime was "installed".

* Though Mossadegh had indeed taken some autocratic actions, and was, as you say, engaged in a power struggle with the Shah. He was not attempting a military coup.
 
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Shadowdweller said:
* Though Mossadegh had indeed taken some autocratic actions, and was, as you say, engaged in a power struggle with the Shah. He was not attempting a military coup.
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Uh, it was a 3-way power struggle between the Islamists, the Monarchists (generally supported by the military) and the Communists.

Mossadegh dissolved the Parliament, the democracy was dead, and the writing was on the wall. The only group in the bunch friendly towards the west were the Monarchists, so that's who the west supported.

The US and UK acted in their best interests, and as far as coups go this was about as bloodless as they get. It's not like Iran was about to transform itself into Denmark. No action would have likely resulted in Iran becoming another Soviet satellite.
 
WildCat said:
Mossadegh dissolved the Parliament, the democracy was dead, and the writing was on the wall. The only group in the bunch friendly towards the west were the Monarchists, so that's who the west supported.
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"Supported" is a pretty weak word for the direct, internal action we took. You might say W supported the war in Iraq as well.

WildCat said:
The US and UK acted in their best interests, and as far as coups go this was about as bloodless as they get.
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Probably right, as far as the coup itself goes. The Shah's period in power was, however, less than pretty.
 
SezMe said:
"Supported" is a pretty weak word for the direct, internal action we took. You might say W supported the war in Iraq as well.
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The "direct, internal action" was mainly identifying the communists in the military.

Probably right, as far as the coup itself goes. The Shah's period in power was, however, less than pretty.
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Thomas Jefferson wasn't available for the job.
 
SezMe said:
"Supported" is a pretty weak word for the direct, internal action we took. You might say W supported the war in Iraq as well.
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There were hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq during an open war with the declared aim of removing the government from power. There were no troops in Iran.

If the CIA are so ingenious that they can overthrow governments by whispering into people's ears then why weren't they sent to Iraq to whisper into a general's ear instead of having a long, protracted war? Why not send them everywhere?

There was no government installed in Iran. They supported one that was already there.
 
SezMe said:
Just so I'm clear, do you mean the government of Reza Shah Pahlavi?
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No, the government of Enrique Iglesias. Yes, the Shar.

Who cares about operation Ajax anyway? America has proved its commitment to democracy in the Middle East with the Iraq war and Afghanistan. Well at least the Bush administration did.
 
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WildCat said:
The "direct, internal action" was mainly identifying the communists in the military.
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Apparently it was somewhat more than that, for instance:
NYT – C.I.A. doc. said:
In early August, the C.I.A. stepped up the pressure. Iranian operatives pretending to be Communists threatened Muslim leaders with "savage punishment if they opposed Mossadegh," seeking to stir anti-Communist sentiment in the religious community.

In addition, the secret history says, the house of at least one prominent Muslim was bombed by C.I.A. agents posing as Communists. It does not say whether anyone was hurt in this attack.
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One major obstacle seems to have been the Shah’s indecision at every turn, thus he practically had to be pushed forward all the time, for most of the steps.

Here's a good piece by James Risen - NYT
 
Virus said:
There was no government installed in Iran. They supported one that was already there.
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SezMe said:
Just so I'm clear, do you mean the government of Reza Shah Pahlavi?
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Virus said:
Yes, the Shar.

Who cares about operation Ajax anyway?
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I'm not after Ajax, I'm after your view of the world...which has now been shown to be utterly bollocks. The CIA was extensively involved in Iran's coup. For you to deny that is to deny established reality. See the link in the previous post.

Thanks for the clarification. I can now confidently ignore your posts in this thread.
 
Virus said:
No, the government of Enrique Iglesias. Yes, the Shar.

Who cares about operation Ajax anyway? America has proved its commitment to democracy in the Middle East with the Iraq war and Afghanistan. Well at least the Bush administration did.
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Afghanistan? really....I thought George just wanted to get up close and personal with the guy that arranged the death of 3000 people in the US

And Iraq...help me out. I thought it was about WMDs
 
SezMe said:
I'm not after Ajax, I'm after your view of the world...which has now been shown to be utterly bollocks. The CIA was extensively involved in Iran's coup. For you to deny that is to deny established reality. See the link in the previous post.
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The whole subject came up because I said that regime change in Iran would be a good thing and inevitable. You said it wouldn't because the US had a shady involvement with the Shar sixty years ago. Times change. The new generation of Iranians is pro-West and want real democracy. We want real democracy there too.
 
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