A question about the political spectrum in the US

[JoeTheJuggler]

Who wants to see the death of difference?

In fact, if anything the problem with U.S. politics in this regard is homogeneity. As the OP points out, what is called "left" or "liberal" here is right of center by any objective definition. So we have less diversity, at least at the national level.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Because we go to the moon and beat up other westernized countries when necessary, we do not have the "daddy" complex -- we are the daddy.

Now before you pass out from apoplexy, may I quote one BBC/Frontline special that noted that, in spite of what England, France, and so on really thought, when it came to the fate of Europe, the US spoke to the USSR, superpower to superpower.


We aren't to the right. Other westernized countries are to the left. Too far. We are not the defective ones, what with our inventin' **** all the time and stuff.

Is this satire?

 

[leftysergeant]

Is this satire?

I can see where one who is not totally familiar with American Libertarians would think it were a joke.

I wish it were.

 

[leftysergeant]

There are janitors on Long Island that make more than $100,000.00 a year. Is that a living wage? Will you write me a poem about it?

Nation wide, that is an anomoly. Is Long Island an unusually wealthy area? What sort of firms hires janitors at that wage?

 

[Beerina]

The country was built on the ability of well-armed people of European descent to rip off whatever they wanted from the indigenous peoples. If you couldn't make it in the city, you were always free to go out into the hinterlands and carve out a niche for yourself, and if you didn't make, too bad.

Some people still haven't gotten the message that those days are as long gone as the passenger pigeon.

Yes, "ripping off the indigenous peoples" is why we go to the moon and invent way, way more than our per-capita share on the planet. Not saying it isn't an issue, but jeepers, give it a rest.

 

[Beerina]

That seems to me an over-simplification. The extrreme right is not that interested in ecconomic justice. That would require an equitible distribution of wealth and living wages for all who make an effort.

Well, he's shifted a little bit, anyway.

[capitalist mode] "Living wage" for a janitor? [/capitalist mode]

Then don't be a janitor. It is not the responsibility of people with money who made an effort to make sure every skillless person can have as much money as a politician pontificating to them thinks they should get.

 

[leftysergeant]

Then don't be a janitor. It is not the responsibility of people with money who made an effort to make sure every skillless person can have as much money as a politician pontificating to them thinks they should get.

People with money have no right to have the labor of another person without paying the fair value of the labor. It's that simple.

 

[ProBonoShill]

I'd have to disagree with the OP.

Obama and the Democrat party is left of the Canadian Conservative party.

You won't hear Stephen Harper talking about "spreading the wealth". The Conservatives would never force the head of a co-orporation to resign, push cap & trade, amnesty for illegals or ban offshore drilling. Though they did provide stimulus, it was nowhere near the extent of the one approved by the Democrats in the U.S.

Liberal politicians in Canada love tax hikes, Conservatives not so much.

The same seems to be true down south.

Unfortunalty many Canadians seem to like living in a nanny state and paying high taxes, therefore Conservatives have to cater to these people somewhat in order to be elected.

The Reform party was created because the Progressive Conservatives were leaning too much towards the center. Many of these "reformers" are now in the Conservative party which was created when the two merged..

 

[rustypouch]

Yes, "ripping off the indigenous peoples" is why we go to the moon and invent way, way more than our per-capita share on the planet. Not saying it isn't an issue, but jeepers, give it a rest.

Americans have gone to the Moon, but your claim about inventions is way, way, off, backed up by some quick googling.

Some sources place the US at 40th in the world in terms of patents per capita in recent years.

I think I might now hear someone claiming it's harder to get patents in the states than other countries.

But I still don't see how this relates to why American politics is to the right of other comparable countries.

 

[quarky]

We've gotten fatter and dumber here in the U.S.

The drift right-ward is a mere coincidence.

 

[rustypouch]

I'd have to disagree with the OP.

Obama and the Democrat party is left of the Canadian Conservative party.

You won't hear Stephen Harper talking about "spreading the wealth". The Conservatives would never force the head of a co-orporation to resign, push cap & trade, amnesty for illegals or ban offshore drilling. Though they did provide stimulus, it was nowhere near the extent of the one approved by the Democrats in the U.S.

Liberal politicians in Canada love tax hikes, Conservatives not so much.

The same seems to be true down south.

Unfortunalty many Canadians seem to like living in a nanny state and paying high taxes, therefore Conservatives have to cater to these people somewhat in order to be elected.

The Reform party was created because the Progressive Conservatives were leaning too much towards the center. Many of these "reformers" are now in the Conservative party which was created when the two merged..

Wait, what?

So how does this mean you disagree with me?

I said "He is not as far right as our Conservative Party" in the OP...

You just said "Obama and the Democrat party is left of the Canadian Conservative party."

Don't both these statements put Obama further left than the Canadian Conservative party?

I am confused...

But I am familiar with the history of Manning, Doris, and CCRAP.

 

[leftysergeant]

We've gotten fatter and dumber here in the U.S.

The drift right-ward is a mere coincidence.

Actually, it is a consequence of our own prosperity.

The prosperity we enjoyed after WWII was the result of the buildup of our industrial capacity to arm the rest of the free world as they went out to engage the Nazis.

Government saw a need to build that capacity, and thus subsidized it, but taxed the profiteers like mad to keep the pace up until we had to become our own best customers and the defifict went through the roof.

But the high taxes kept the deficits managable.

But, after a while, the capitalists got the absurd notion that they had created that prosperity and demanded tax cuts to keep their fat butts in place, and let the working class fend for themselves.

And the jelly-brain from California gave them what they wanted.

American politics leans as heavily right as it does because we have too many rich people who fancy themselves self-made men calling the politcal tune for the country. Greed has become "good" because, in thse little pea brains, greed won all our wars for us. (Except the few we lost.)

 

[uk_dave]

Because America,that's why.

**** yeah!

 

[uk_dave]

We aren't to the right. Other westernized countries are to the left. Too far. We are not the defective ones, what with our inventin' **** all the time and stuff.

Your eloquence does you proud, bubba.

 

[Shalamar]

I think the answer is...

America is great because its America, and that is why Obama is a far left commie pinko socialist. Which has nothing to do with the OP.

Obama is a moderate. The problem is with the right, which seems to be so far to the right that Obama seems like a left-wing extremist in comparison. In other words, American politics as usual.

I haven't been thrilled with all of Obama's decisions, but I haven't been disappointed in all of them as well. But then, I'm one of those evil job stealing immigrants that some on the right seem to think that if I fall ill, I should just crawl into a corner and die, lest I inadvertently need assistance from the system. After all, it is just like Video Games.

When the right stops being so.. extremist, the left will probably start actually drifting to the left, giving a better balance in the politics of the nation. Probably when the right stops trying to push religion, stops trying to destroy science, and realizes that not all socialist programs are the work of the debil.

 

[ProBonoShill]

Wait, what?

So how does this mean you disagree with me?

I said "He is not as far right as our Conservative Party" in the OP...

You just said "Obama and the Democrat party is left of the Canadian Conservative party."

Don't both these statements put Obama further left than the Canadian Conservative party?

I am confused...

But I am familiar with the history of Manning, Doris, and CCRAP.

My apologies, I thought you were comparing the Democrats to our Conservatives. You made it clear that Obama was left of Canada's Conservative party.

It seemed you were inferring that Obama wasn't a liberal and his politics were right of our Liberal party.

My post was more directed towards these statements:

Compared to Canadian politics, which I know best, he is moderately right wing. He is not as far right as our Conservative Party, but he is slightly right of the Liberal party, which as been drifting slightly right.

I wouldn't consider Obama "moderately right wing" a quick look at his background and mentors would tell you this isn't so, nor do I believe the Liberal party has been drifting right.
Especially when it has the likes of Bob Rae, Ken Dryden, Gerard Kennedy and Justin Trudeau as high profile members.

I'd say Obama has far more in common with Bob Rae than Stephen Harper.

 

[Drysdale]

I think the answer is...

America is great because its America, and that is why Obama is a far left commie pinko socialist. Which has nothing to do with the OP.

Obama is a moderate. The problem is with the right, which seems to be so far to the right that Obama seems like a left-wing extremist in comparison. In other words, American politics as usual.

I haven't been thrilled with all of Obama's decisions, but I haven't been disappointed in all of them as well. But then, I'm one of those evil job stealing immigrants that some on the right seem to think that if I fall ill, I should just crawl into a corner and die, lest I inadvertently need assistance from the system. After all, it is just like Video Games.

When the right stops being so.. extremist, the left will probably start actually drifting to the left, giving a better balance in the politics of the nation. Probably when the right stops trying to push religion, stops trying to destroy science, and realizes that not all socialist programs are the work of the debil.

Why is the right anti-science in your view?

And I cant say if socialist programs are the work of the devil, but they do have a tendency to grow into monsters.

 

[Shalamar]

Why is the right anti-science in your view?

And I cant say if socialist programs are the work of the devil, but they do have a tendency to grow into monsters.

I consider the right anti-science for two reasons. Climate Change, and Evolution. Or rather 'Teach the Controversy'. I also understand that a fair portion of that is in the south, and somewhat tied to the state politicians, and less on the federal side, but I see many Conservatives hemming and hawing when it comes to questions like that, out of fear of alienating their base.

As for the socialist programs, they certainly can be monsters! However, that does not mean that they should be discarded entirely. The main thing I want to see is a proper health care system in the states. One that doesn't punish people for getting sick, even if they have insurance!

 

[Drysdale]

I consider the right anti-science for two reasons. Climate Change, and Evolution. Or rather 'Teach the Controversy'. I also understand that a fair portion of that is in the south, and somewhat tied to the state politicians, and less on the federal side, but I see many Conservatives hemming and hawing when it comes to questions like that, out of fear of alienating their base.

As for the socialist programs, they certainly can be monsters! However, that does not mean that they should be discarded entirely. The main thing I want to see is a proper health care system in the states. One that doesn't punish people for getting sick, even if they have insurance!

Evolution angle I can see, Climate change though eh. Dont want to derail the thread into a climate change debate but I dont know if I'd consider that anti-science if you are skeptical of it.

 

[Brainster]

I'd say probably because the US has had to shoulder the burden of world defense, much of the rest of the West had the freedom to indulge itself on the social issues front. It's not that the US moved right, it's that the other countries moved left.