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Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures

CORed said:
He also perhaps should understand, if he doesn't already, that the British King and Parliament didn't just read the Declaration of Independence and say, "Well, ok then, have a nice country. Americans." There was the small matter of a war that had to be fought to make that happen. The writers of the Declaratin of Independence were fully aware that it would take a war to make their fine words into reality. The FOTL kooks seem to think that the can "alter or abolish" their system of government simply by uttering a few magic words.
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The signers of the DOI agreed to "pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor". That's a level of commitment I have not seen by any from any of the footls.


http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
 
Bluekush623 said:
Ok that you, finally someone admitting the fact that it is all by power or enforcement.

And just so you know by gun point is not a lawful and therefore legal practice. It is highly ILLEGAL.

If you want to say by gun point is legitimate when then you are saying criminals are free to do whatever they want as long as they have a gun.

(I will also contend that Nazi Germany was fooled at the beginning and then forced to follow their foolish intentions)
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But that is the beauty, the good guys have more guns than the bad guys. I am not saying a criminal is right, i am not saying the law is right, i am saying it is enforceable. A criminal can enforce his wants and needs on you, but police can enforce societies wants and needs on them. And what decides that? Consent? No , which side has more guns and more hands to use them with. It would be better if force was not needed, but that is a silly unrealistic view. Utopia is for Utopians, and Utopians we are not.

As much as you may want to go on about how wrong and illegal that is, it is the way it is. Consent has nothing at all to do with law, law isn't some divine force out to protect you, it is simply the force of the land codified.

Only laws that are enforced have any power, and even if the fotl stuff is perfectly valid, ( which it is not, but trying to use legal evidence to support the argument hasn't been working. So i am taking the pragmatic route. ) no one is willing to enforce it, thereby making it useless.

So what we have is a small minority saying " we want this law" and the rest of us saying " no that is a silly idea" and the rest of us have the power of enforcement backing us up. that is the beauty of democracy. The rest of us don't want to live in freemanland, and you don't have the power of enforcement to make us. In short, the freemen lose. And seeing as the rest of us are perfectly happy paying our dues to society in order to receive its benefits, that is a beautiful thing.
 
Bluekush623 said:
Then we mine as well get rid of the court system and jail.
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You didn't read my post did you? If you did you would have read where i was endorsing the idea of jail. And of course we will need a court system to decide who goes to jail and who doesn't.

Jail is another manifestation of force. If we do not want to hurt you, ( as in your not doing anything at that second that would hurt someone.) we lock you up. Again, proof that enforcement is key to the law , not consent.

the fundamental misunderstanding here is you think the law is magic words that can be manipulated like a spell, where i realize it is simply the will of the person enforcing it and there is leeway in the enforcement. This may not always work out perfectly, but it works quite a bit better than any alternative. Especially the one the freemen are purposing
 
Bluekush623 said:
Assuming the freeman would deny a fire to be put out is an erroneous claim to make, as it the the Freeman denier who says they wont allow for their money to put out a freeman fire.

I mean seriously, no one here has any valid arguments.
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Oh yeah, i can see how no freeman would ever want to commit an act that takes money away from someone because they can get away with it.

Do freemen feces smell like fresh baked bread as well?
 
Bluekush623 said:
oh come on.

we know the cops are not the "man" they follow the orders of the man.
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Exactly, they are common folk who agree to enforce the laws. Proving this is not a rich versus poor thing, it is a freemen versus the rest of the world thing.
 
Bluekush623 said:
Big whoop you can drink liquor and smoke tobacco (The 2 deadliest drugs) and have the option to believe in fiction, watch porn, talk crap and write your opinions.

But you cant take other substances such peyote, lsd, psilocybin, dmt, cannabis, heroin, cocaine, meth countless other drugs. Because they are not "safe", its hysterical. This is the oppression.
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First off , if someone wants to head **** themselves with those drugs, that is cool, but i can tell you i don't want a bunch of tripping coke heads wandering about the streets of my city. And most people do not either, so we have the police to curb this. Democracy in action my friend.

And as far as pot, come on man. I can smoke a joint any day i want to in my living room, and have , many times walked right down the street doing it. Hell on no less than 2 occasions i have smoked one within sight of a police officer, getting nothing more than a " hey could you put that out?". Oh woe the police state we live in.

And seriously, if hard drugs are your only claim of a police state, go live in iraq or iran for a while, then tell me we live in a police state.

And do you realize your post is saying " so what about my right to express myself , i want to do hard drugs.", your priorities my friend, are seriously misplaced.
 
Bluekush623 said:
Nope, because the US has to play by the rules they set for themselves.
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Yeah, your right, they set the standard for going to another country, taking the inhabitants by force and claiming it. If you want to do the same go ahead and try, but in playing war, my side has the cooler toys, by far.

Btw, i am again calling you on not reading my post, what you said made little sense as a reply to what i said.
 
We should give the Freemen and Freewomen a country of their own and let them get on with it.We could all bet on how long it would take before they started eating each other.
 
Ladewig said:
This train of thought is too stupid to continue.

Pleasse address #887 and #889 when you have time.
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Your right lad, but i will anyway. I am having fun with this guy.

Man paints a fence, man has fence painting equipment ( paint, overalls, etc.) paid for by the person who is employing them. At the end the person employing them states " sorry , no damage was done to you, you didn't have to pay any money, and you didn't ask me to write you up consent to do it, no money for you."

Man runs a haunted house during halloween puts up a sign saying to pay as you exit. Family enters, when asked to pay they say " sorry you did not get our consent to pay."

Or seeing as you seem rather pot oriented. Lt's try this one.

You are at a pot cafe, there is a 5 dollar charge to use a very nice bong. You pick up the bong, smoke out of it and refuse to pay the charge for using the bong because you didn't give consent to pay.



These are just three examples of how silly your logic is. Damage does not have to be done in order for you to pay, goods do not have to be exchanged. You simply have to use a service, if you do not want to pay, do not use the service. Anything else is being dishonest in order to avoid payment.
 
sadhatter said:
The rest of us don't want to live in freemanland, and you don't have the power of enforcement to make us.
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I think you have it backwards. The FOTL described in this thread do not want to force the rest of us to follow their political viewpoint. They enjoy watching the rest of us being taxed to raise money to build roads so that they can freeload by using those same roads. They know that all the benefits they currently enjoy would disappear if they could force everyone to be FOTL.
 
sadhatter said:
Your right lad, but i will anyway. I am having fun with this guy.

Man paints a fence, man has fence painting equipment ( paint, overalls, etc.) paid for by the person who is employing them. At the end the person employing them states " sorry , no damage was done to you, you didn't have to pay any money, and you didn't ask me to write you up consent to do it, no money for you."

Man runs a haunted house during halloween puts up a sign saying to pay as you exit. Family enters, when asked to pay they say " sorry you did not get our consent to pay."

Or seeing as you seem rather pot oriented. Lt's try this one.

You are at a pot cafe, there is a 5 dollar charge to use a very nice bong. You pick up the bong, smoke out of it and refuse to pay the charge for using the bong because you didn't give consent to pay.



These are just three examples of how silly your logic is. Damage does not have to be done in order for you to pay, goods do not have to be exchanged. You simply have to use a service, if you do not want to pay, do not use the service. Anything else is being dishonest in order to avoid payment.
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Good examples.I am dying to know how this Freeloader stuff would work in daily life.Not at all,it would seem.Perhaps Bluekush623 could enlighten us?
 
tsig said:
He has yet to learn one of life's lessons:

Never piss off the man who can lock you up
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Yeah, i mean kush is a pot smoker , so am i. And i have been caught by police a few times in my life, every time i am courteous and nice as can be. And you know what, i have never gotten so much as a fine.

Hell one night i was about one drink shy of being flammable. And two police officers see me taking a giant number 2 off of a sign. Even **** faced drunk i was polite and explained that i was sorry and that due to drinking i thought it was a good idea to take the number two. This is the most illegal thing i have done, and should i have been a cop, i may have arrested me. But they simply told me to get my pizza , go home, and stop acting like a moron.

The worst i could say about the cops is they didn't find the concept of owning a giant number 2 funny. ( i at length explained that due to the inherent fecal reference i would find it humorous to put up in my place. They did not get the joke. )
 
tsig said:
The signers of the DOI agreed to "pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor". That's a level of commitment I have not seen by any from any of the footls.


http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
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I'm an American and rather fond of the DOI. Seeing the FOTLer's do a reductio ad absurdem on the "consent of the governed" distresses me, even though I don't think they realize that they are doing that.
 
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