Survival

Kumar said:
Who decide or how it is decided we are in homeostatis?

Probably;-

[When "live & let live" is prominient we can be in/near to "nature balance".

When "might is right" there we may be in nature's imbalance. "surrvival of fittest" next state followed again by "live & let live".

Obioustly, satisfied/balanced people can go for "live & let live" wheras unsatisfied/imbalanced for "might is right".]

Yes but to true science.

They may have other type of brain by which they act.
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I do not understand, please rephrase.
 
Kumar said:
"Functions
From an organismic perspective, the primary function of a brain is to control the actions of an animal."

It can be a cordinated function of brain at mactro level but if it control every cell at micro level & how is need to be understood.
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It doesn't, so there is no need to try and understand anything. Cells are autonomous, especially cancerous cells.

ETA: Kumar, I had to through under-grad and grad school before we learned 'everything' about how cells interact. And even then, I do not understand much. Do you really want us to try and explain such complex ideas to you? Do you have any university education in biology, cell biology, genetics or microbiology?
 
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The Man said:
Not to what is being killed and dying as a result of being killed. Which of course is one of the basic problems in cancer treatment, how do you kill the cancerous cells without affecting, and thus killing, surrounding healthy cells?
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Thanks for technical informations in detail.

Yes that can be a problem of killing.

All cells are independent to some degree or other. When they act in concert it is general considered an organism, organ or organ system. So it doesn’t look a “bit odd that cancer cells become independent but don't have mind”.
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Do you feel that normal cells & cancer cells are self controlled & surrounding environment to them are just signals to perform different actions as per environment changes?

Your body kills things all the time, including those cells that have reached their life expectancy. If not, cells would keep reproducing and our cellular load would become more than the possible nutritional intake could sustain.
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Right.




Not really, some cells present antigens (certain proteins) or certain antigen receptors (places bits of protein can bind to) on their surface as response from perhaps an earlier infection, that helps to recognize a subsequent infection. In that regard it can be considered a “memory” of that pervious infection. My car is independent of my house yet nether has any mind. If I slam my car into my house, my house will now have an indentation of my car on its surface (a car receptor or a place where a car like mine could fit). A memory of that impact to some extent. Yet that impact gives neither my car nor my house a mind as a result (and the event might seriously bring into question my mind at the time).
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Yes.

I think you are disregarding a particular “imbalance”, where ones own immune system begins to attack the body (autoimmune diseases). Just as in the difficulty with distinguishing cancerous cells to kill from those other healthy cells. The body (and specifically the immune system) can fail to recognize (again often by antigens and receptors) healthy cells from those infected or some infection or injury. The immune system goes into overdrive and begins attacking the very cells or systems it should protect. Myself , I inject a tumor necrosis factor inhibitor (a biological protein that binds to certain cellular antigen receptors, particularly for inflammation response) that keeps my immune system at bay and prevents it from destroying critical parts of my own joint function. So a “body-controlled” attack on one’s own body subsequently controlled by the introduction of an injected biological fusion protein .
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Is it not like we are doing to cancer cells? We also kill cancer cells with healthy cells like autoimmunity or inflammation kill. In this sense why we can't take that autoimmunity & inflammation is doing right thing for us--probably killing or decreasing odd cells(excessive, sick, foreigners or otherwise problematic) to our body? Obiously some healthy cells can also be sacrificed for some good in nett. Sometime back I was thinking compromised healing esp. for small injuries (scar etc.) may as a result of interventions in natural healing process.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Kumar, this modified Terry Pratchett quote might be helpful for you:

"The body isn't run by our mind, despite its opnion in the matter"

The majority of your bodily functions run on automatic, you have NO control over them. And all of the subcellular mechanisms are utterly beyond our mind's control. Cancer is an error in subcellular machinery.

Start cycle
Check local input signals
IF signal = divide GOTO divide ELSE return to start cycle

divide
GOTO start cycle

this is probably a good analogy of the controlling mechanism of cancer cells.
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Thanks. I need to understand about "its opinion matter and local input signals". What are they & who send/mediate these signals?
 
Sledge said:
I can't even pretend I think the answer will be funny. Now I'm just crashing on through some sort of masochistic urge to make Kumar learn anything.
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Cancer is cancer alike Sun is sun because both are universily known.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
No. In both conditions they divide until they run out of a food source.
In the lab that is because the media is spent.
In the body that is because the patient has died.
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Thanks. They are still better. We have lot of nutrients, still die.
 
Kumar said:
Thanks. I need to understand about "its opinion matter and local input signals". What are they & who send/mediate these signals?
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To gain some understanding in that I'd advise you to take a full course in cellular biology, genetics and biochemistry.

A short attempt. Each cell is filled with receptors and transport channels. In response to stimuli from their environment cells can release certain signalling molecules that then make the cells that can recieve these molecules react in a certain way. All of these things are part of a massive action/response interactive network of a complexity that boggles the mind and that runs fully automatically without any active input from the brain.
These continuous checks and balances ensure your skin keeps growing, while your brain does not etc.
The fact that something in that network can go wrong is not that surprising. The surprising part is how *little* it actually malfunctions.

However, and this cannot be stressed enough. This is not a sentient network. It does not think, it has no emotions, it is just a very complex chemical reaction. Thus if something goes wrong there is no consious decision to kill the host, its just a side effect.
 
kerikiwi said:
No it doesn't control every cell, as was earlier explained to you. Therefore there is no question of how, and nothing to understand.
Do you actually read any of the replies or are you just merrily going around on the carousel?
Is there a carousel in Copenhagen?
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Looks ok as brain dead people still live & also do many activities.

Once upon a time I went to CH & there something happened like that. Reason, we were not knowing each other language.
 
Kumar said:
Thanks. They are still better. We have lot of nutrients, still die.
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Cancer does not kill by consuming all our nutrients. It kills because in its unregulated growth it will destroy essential organs by literally tearing them apart. Once those are gone the patient dies, and when that happens the cancer becomes starved of nutrients.
That is not a case of being 'better'.
 
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