Jewish dance group stoned in Hanover, Germany

[WildCat]

How about holding them to our standards?

Because they can't help themselves, not being whites of European ancestry. So we have to cut them some slack.









/sarcasm

 

[Thunder]

I don't see a rise in "antisemitism". I see a rise in disgust about the policies of Israel, caused by the disgusting policies of Israel. Which causes "collateral damage", like in this case.

I must admit that I agree with this analysis.

Hatred and anger against Israel is at an all-time high, due to the Gaza embargo, the continued building of settlements in east Jerusalem, and various other reasons.

The Jews of the world, are unfortunately often times the target of this anger.

Do the Jews of the world bear the responsibility for Israel's misdeeds? Of course not.

Could and should the Jews of the world do more to express outrage against Israel's misdeeds and stand up against them, as Jews of conscience?

Totally.

Will there always be closet anti-Semites who use Israel and Zionism as a mask for their Jew-hatred?

For sure.

 

[Pardalis]

Don't let the ideologues like Jihad Jane derail this thread into another thread about how "evil" the US and Israel allegedly are.

I'm waiting to see if Jihad Jane is going to comment on the actual topic or not.

 

[Pardalis]

I must admit that I agree with this analysis.

Hatred and anger against Israel is at an all-time high, due to the Gaza embargo, the continued building of settlements in east Jerusalem, and various other reasons.

The Jews of the world, are unfortunately often times the target of this anger.

Do the Jews of the world bear the responsibility for Israel's misdeeds? Of course not.

Could and should the Jews of the world do more to express outrage against Israel's misdeeds and stand up against them, as Jews of conscience?

Totally.

Will there always be closet anti-Semites who use Israel and Zionism as a mask for their Jew-hatred?

For sure.

Will Thunder stop babbling on and on?

Probably not.

 

[Thunder]

Will Thunder stop babbling on and on?

Probably not.

babbling= saying things you disagree with

???????

 

[Pardalis]

You said you agreed with CE's "analysis". If I had thrown rocks at Muslims on 9/12, in 2001, would it have been a hate crime or "collateral damage"?

 

[Thunder]

If I had thrown rocks at Muslims on 9/12, in 2001, would it have been a hate crime or "collateral damage"?

oy vey. you can stop now.

 

[Pardalis]

I see, you can only answer your own questions, and not other people's questions.

Maybe we should leave you alone so you can have a conversation with yourself?

 

[Thunder]

I see, you can only answer your own questions, and not other people's questions.

Maybe we should leave you alone so you can have a conversation with yourself?

do you not agree that when things heat up in Israel/Palestine, attacks on Jews also increases?

and then when things cool down and folks are getting along, hate-crimes against Jews go down?

in this case, corrolation DOES equal causation.

 

[Pardalis]

do you not agree that when things heat up in Israel/Palestine, attacks on Jews also increases?

I don't give a crap what justifications racists and antisemites use for their hate crimes. Racism is racism.

and then when things cool down and folks are getting along, hate-crimes against Jews go down?

No, antisemites will always find other justifications to attack Jews.

in this case, corrolation DOES equal causation.

No. How do you know these German kids were protesting the Gaza blockade specifically?

 

[ddt]

According to you it's not a hate crime, it's "collateral damage".

The two are not mutually exclusive, you know.

And what exactly do these Jewish dancers have to do with Israel's policies?

As irony wants it, they were invited by a liberal Jewish community that was critical of Israeli policies.

Are all Jewish people around the world responsible for Israel's policies, and therefore legitimate targets for reprisals?

You really need to be explained that 1 + 1 equals 2?

No. But you'd be hard-pressed to find out from their spokespersons. Check out the statements of Ms. Charlotte Knobloch, the president of the Central Committee of Jews in Germany, or her predecessors. I challenge you to find one critical of Israel. Add to that a general reluctance in Germany to say anything critical of Israel - something to do with the recent past. Not to mention the editorial policy of Springer, the main printed media concern.

Whenever Dutch TV had an item on Israel, they used to invite Ronnie Naftaniel, president of CIDI, and he would come and defend/whitewash whatever Israel had done. Later Leon de Winter took his place. Same story.

Little wonder if your spokespersons act as mouthpieces of Israel, that people come to identify you as an extension of said country. Mind, I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable. And yes, I know there are Jews critical of Israel, like Harry de Winter (no family) and Hajo Meyer of "Another Jewish Voice". But they hardly get airtime.

And just look at your own posting history. I could easily dig up posts where you criticize actions of your own government. Not of the Israel government though. And I could name several other posters for which the same holds.

 

[Thunder]

I don't give a crap what justifications racists and antisemites use for their hate crimes. Racism is racism.

No, antisemites will always find other justifications to attack Jews.

so hate crimes against Jews do not increase when the Middle East heats up, and decrease when the Middle East cools down?

you are wrong. there has been a direct corrolation between strife in the Middle East and attacks upon Jews by Muslims in the Diaspora.

 

[Thunder]

Little wonder if your spokespersons act as mouthpieces of Israel, that people come to identify you as an extension of said country. Mind, I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable. And yes, I know there are Jews critical of Israel, like Harry de Winter (no family) and Hajo Meyer of "Another Jewish Voice". But they hardly get airtime.

it is a knee-jerk reaction for many Jews to defend Israel, at all times, regardless of the circumstances. many folks are aware of this.

and the fact is that many Jews act as if they are expatriates from Israel. it is not a surprise that Diaspora Jews are often targeted when expressing anger at Israeli actions. Many Jewish groups and even synagogues act as Israeli ambassadors and Israeli cheerleaders.

my own synagogue flies an Israeli flag. and yet, I have never seen an Irish or Italian Catholic church fly the flag of Ireland or Italy.

 

[Pardalis]

The two are not mutually exclusive, you know.

then in this case hate crimes can always be justified by something else.

I prefer to take hate crimes for what they are, crimes.

You really need to be explained that 1 + 1 equals 2?

No. But you'd be hard-pressed to find out from their spokespersons.

They have a right to their free speech. They shouldn't fear reprisals for having their own political opinions.

Check out the statements of Ms. Charlotte Knobloch, the president of the Central Committee of Jews in Germany, or her predecessors. I challenge you to find one critical of Israel.

So what?

Add to that a general reluctance in Germany to say anything critical of Israel -

What does this have to do with this topic?

Whenever Dutch TV had an item on Israel, they used to invite Ronnie Naftaniel, president of CIDI, and he would come and defend/whitewash whatever Israel had done. Later Leon de Winter took his place. Same story.

Nice story, but I fail to see the relevance here.

Little wonder if your spokespersons act as mouthpieces of Israel, that people come to identify you as an extension of said country.

Does that justify an attack on them?

Mind, I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable.

Ultimately this is the same for every other hate crime, they are "understandable" if you try to take their "point of view". This doesn't make their "point of view" right.

And yes, I know there are Jews critical of Israel, like Harry de Winter (no family) and Hajo Meyer of "Another Jewish Voice". But they hardly get airtime.

Again, relevance?

And just look at your own posting history. I could easily dig up posts where you criticize actions of your own government. Not of the Israel government though. And I could name several other posters for which the same holds.

I didn't see you being very critical of the German kids so far, which is the topic of this thread.

 

[Thunder]

Pardalis- Israeli cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at Israel is taken out on them. Its just how the world works.

Its not fair..its not nice...its not right. But its the way of the world.

 

[DC]

Pardalis, how would you fight antisemitism?

 

[Pardalis]

Pardalis- Israeli cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at Israel is taken out on them.

So that makes an attack on them right?

Let's try your logic:

Jihadist cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at radical Islam is taken out on them.

American cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at the US is taken out on them.

Chinese cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at China is taken out on them.

German cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at Germany is taken out on them.


Wow, you can excuse alot of abhorent behaviour with that logic.

Nice work.

Its just how the world works.

Its not fair..its not nice...its not right. But its the way of the world.

Status quo cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at the status quo is taken out on them.

 

[Thunder]

So that makes an attack on them right?

Let's try your logic:

Jihadist cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at radical Islam is taken out on them.

American cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at the US is taken out on them.

Chinese cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at China is taken out on them.

German cheerleaders should not be surprised when anger at Germany is taken out on them. .

that is correct. im not justifying violence or harrassment. but i would not be surprised at such events.

 

[Pardalis]

Pardalis, how would you fight antisemitism?

Calling them out when we see them, prosecuting those who commit hate crimes, and confronting their apologists.

 

[DC]

Calling them out when we see them, prosecuting those who commit hate crimes, and confronting their apologists.

how do you confront them if you do not even try to understand where their hatred comes from?