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100 Reasons Why Evolution Is Stupid (Part 1 of 11)

Lets get past the God thing first.
If you viewed my links back a ways they are saying that DNA is a machine that was programed and work like machines, information has to be there.
It had to come from some where.
I'll have to watch it again.

I didn't ask what your link said. I asked what you, as a believer in ID, believe the IDer to be. Do you or do you not believe the IDer to be your god?

So, by all means, let's get past the god thing one way or another.
 
...they are saying that DNA is a machine that was programed and work like machines, information has to be there.
It had to come from some where.
..

The "information" is in the form of natural laws. My favorite analogy is the sand on a beach that has all different grain sizes. If the beach is sloped, and the waves keep washing the sand, the grain sizes get sorted out because of a physical law that causes the lighter ones to get washed further up, while the pebbles don't get as far.

Someone could look at this and say, "Look, these were sorted by someone!". But there is not any "someone", simply a natural principle or "law", as it is called. It's not a whole lot different than saying that an apple fell fell from a tree, so we need to explain where the information comes from to tell the apple which way to fall, and at what speed. Or when you play pool, and you break the balls at the beginning. Where does the information come from to position the balls in their final positions? Natural laws, elasticity, momentum, etc.

Proteins "fold" according to some pretty astonishing principles, and in so doing behave differently.

No real need for any kind of "intelligence" to be involved, except on the part of the scientists who are trying to figure it out.
 
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If you viewed my links back a ways they are saying that DNA is a machine that was programed and work like machines, information has to be there.
It had to come from some where.
I'll have to watch it again.

Yes it has to come from somewhere. It comes from natural selection of random mutations.

If I have a program that generates random letters, it'll take a long time to generate a desired word randomly. 26number of letters iterations.

But if I introduce a filter, something that once it finds the right letter for one place in the word, then it'll get the desired word in only 26 iterations.

For a 10 letter word that's 9 orders of magnitude difference.. the difference between the process taking one second and one year.
 
Boy, that sounds smart so it must be the truth.

Well; the beginning assumption was that evolution was obviously stupid. So, now, it at least sounds smart, I'd qualify it as progress.


I doubt that many here are willing or able to even recognize and admit the litany of assumptions, speculations and leaps of faith accepted in this nice story.

Sure there are several speculations in there, of course but not many, just the effects of a slow pilling-up of what your fellow creationists would accept as 'micro-evolutionary' changes, into 'macro-evolution'.

But, the important point to keep in mind is that, no matter how big of a speculation a naturalistic hypothesis will make. It always has its grounding in known naturalistic phenomena. To put it bluntly, no matter how big an assumption a naturalistic hypothesis will make, it will always be a smaller one than any supernatural explanation...
 
How about you just point out one of each (or even just one of one), and we'll take it from there.
How about "no"?

Or it could be, if people keep telling you that you don't understand something, that it's because you have demonstrated a lack of understanding.
Disagreeing and not accepting is such demonstration here.
 
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Disagreeing and not accepting is such demonstration here.

Are you saying that by disagreeing and not accepting, you are demonstrating a lack of understanding?
If so, I can only agree with you.
If not, just what does this sentence mean?
 
I used to, and will again, have a collection of other sacred texts including the Koran on my website. I haven't studied them as well as I have the Bible, of course, but, although I like some of them, none of them are nearly as reliable and trustworthy as the Bible.

Thank you responding. :)

Why do you think the Bible is more reliable and trustworthy than other sacred texts?

ETA: Sorry if you've already covered it, this thread moves too fast for me to follow.
 
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I hope you don't mind if I horn in on this polyamorous relationship. Thank you (and others) for your enlightening posts. I know the big bits of evolutionary theory, but I am fascinated by some of the nitty gritty details. One of my new years resolutions has been to educate myself more in the science fields, so I'm doing lots of reading, and I really enjoy what I'm able to learn right here at JREF.



Did you ask the spoonbender to bend the spoon back to its original position? They never seem to manage that second bit. You do know that even young children can be trained to do such illusions, don't you?

I understand what your saying, I was the spoon bender, but actually it was a screw driver, case hardened.
I'll explain in a minute.
I have told this story in here before.
It was the strangest thing I ever seen, if it didn’t happen in my hands I still wouldn’t believe it.
Can’t repeat it or at least I don’t think I can, and it was years ago.
It was the weirdest thing I have seen at least up close.
This is going to take a couple of minutes.
 
Olowkow says:
Remember, there are only 4 forces in nature that anyone knows of, and three of them are pretty much ruled out for bending spoons. If you describe exactly what happened, I'm sure lots of us would give an honest shot at explaining it for you.

I was doing construction, soffit and fascia, it was a small house but it had many corners, entry way was typical and small. It the ceiling in the entry way was the last thing I had to do, Ceiling was 5x4 feet very small I was using vinyl solid non-vented.
It’s inserted into a J channel that’s made of aluminum very thin material and delicate, but its shape makes it fairly strong.
It was a very hot day and I wanted to get out of there early a normal size house might have took me a couple of hours longer so I planed on having some fun that day.

The pieces were ten inches wide the vinyl piece had to be cut down to 4 inches or so long ways to fit the last opening, and a piece had to be inserted into the J to hold it in and keep it looking right when viewed from below.

They lock together pretty good and all are also nailed to the trusses or dead wood that you have to nail up but the last one since cut slides in and locks to the one before and the clips or clip you put into the J channel to hold the cut end of the ceiling material also helps to lock it in since you can’t really nail that one down.

I’ll take a picture of the ceiling here so that will give you a better visual idea of what I am talking about.

The 3rd picture is the way it looks from below tight to the J channel, the 1st pic is where I am pointing to the beginning of the last full un-cut piece, the 2nd pic is the last grove and the place it locks onto the 2nd to the last piece and the tool I am using the J channel is being pried open the last piece is only about two inches wide and had to be ripped down it’s whole length to lock and fit into the J channel.
Above that piece is something that holds it to the J tightly and helps lock it in, but you can still pull it out for repairs and no nails are used on this last piece.
Now see what I am doing with a gutter spike?
You do the same with a screw driver as you insert this last piece of vinyl, you slide the driver from one end to the other as you push this last piece in, you give it a separation to be able to get it’s flat cut edge in the J channel. As it locks in to the piece that was mounted before that one.

Well it would not go in and lock on that house and I got frustrated and I tried and tried I seemed to get more frustrated, the piece I was working with was short in length and usually it pops in easily, there’s a locking sound so you know.
The pieces in the photo are 16 inches wide but look the same.

I actually ruined that last piece of J channel and had to replace it once as I slide the driver up and down it’s length, so after I replaced it I tried again, it still wouldn’t go in and I spent about a half hour on that last little piece, so I was getting more frustrated.

What happened as I moved the driver it’s hardened steel shank started to act like rubber and looked more like a liquid as I pried down, I looked at it closely as it happened it was almost bent to a 70 degree angel, by vinyl and aluminum, it got so extreme I dropped it and was shocked I said, Damn really loud in frustration, because the piece wasn’t locked in yet and I would have to climb down off the ladder now to retrieve my driver.

It was about then the drywall guy who was about 250 pounds came over and asked what happened, I told him my driver fell and now was bent, he never realized what had happened, but he did retrieve it for me and bent it back by stepping on one end of it and pulling upward on the other end to help me out, he took some of the bend out but couldn’t make it totally straight as in it’s original condition.

I used it one more time and the piece went in.
It all happened so fast I couldn’t tell him fast enough to not bend it back even though he did fix it to work for my purposes it’s original shape would never come back, it was useless as a driver at that point and I could only use it for prying now.

It was a good driver and on many occasions I used it as a chisel with no problem.
Just to knock of tips of trusses that stuck further down against the sub fascia.
It was never affected by using a hammer on it at all; it was one of my best.
If I misplaced my chisel would be the only time I used it that way.
Cheaper drivers the handles would break and explode so it wasn’t a habit to use them this way but this one was immune to that.


The interaction of those two materials on that driver are too flimsy to bend hardened steel, even if it could hold it so I could bend it I know that I would destroy the J channel first as before, or the panel, what I seen was, it turned to a rubber like material that resembled metal reminded my of mercury but a little more stiff.
 

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It wasn't my strength that did it or I would have destroyed the J or vinyl again I believe some how it was my mind in the respect of my emotions or frustration.
I doubt that I could reproduce the effect, but it made me reconsider the phenomenon, it was one I didn’t believe in as I said above.
 
So for me as I see it... it is possible that our minds are evolving slowly beyond what we know of as normal.
 
Could you please quote chapter and verse regarding exactly where the Bible states this?


We'd also need which version of the Bible, seeing as there are quite a few different translations out there. And each version will have a slightly different meaning depending on the particular English translation used.
 
So for me as I see it... it is possible that our minds are evolving slowly beyond what we know of as normal.

You know, sometimes I think Im actually following your trail of stupid Edge, and then you throw in something like this which makes absolutely no sense, and I realise that I havent been following you at all.
 
He was just saying he felt the responsibility was yours rather than his to back up that classification.
Really, I think he's quite well aware of where the onus of supporting claims lies...but whatever.

Well, let's just say this and hopefully move on: It might or might not best be categorized as Lamarkian, but either way it's a terrible misrepresentation of evolution.

It's a strawman argument and needs to be pointed out as such. But hey, now we've got one group of strawmen attacking another group of strawmen. Must stock up on my Clarityn...
 
My next post will be Part 2 of 11.
Come on, Dave. When I put in the work and post a cogent response to your threads, you suddenly move on to a new topic.

I addressed your questions in post #1056. Simon39759 provided much more information in post #1172.

Will you DARE to actually address these posts before scattering on to newfound fields of mud for stirring and slinging?

:bigcat
 
I posted this reply to you:
...

So, for instance, evolutionary theory as it exists would be disproved if we were to suddenly find evidence in the fossil record that there were mammals before there were troglodytes.

A very minor quibble in an otherwise good post, I think you probably meant trilobyte. :)
 

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