Thermate + steel having the same characteristic corrosion as found by Barnett et al?

[Senenmut]

This is a very good point. It's the same one I keep asking those so-called skeptics about UFOs. Where is there peer-reviewed article that debunks Bob Lazar's anti-gravity device? Where is there peer-review that debunks time travel? Where is there peer-review that debunks creationism. And in this day where anyone can say something stupid and expect it to be taken serious, where is your peer-review that debunks flat Earth? Come on JREF. Get it together. The main purpose of science should be to take seriously every stupid claim that gets said by retards of every sort.

again-
so what your saying is that no one can find paint chips that have the same characteristics as the material prof jones found?? am i right?

 

[twinstead]

again-
so what your saying is that no one can find paint chips that have the same characteristics as the material prof jones found?? am i right?

No, what he is saying it is prof jones's responsibility to show those paint chips are what he claims they are, not ours to prove they aren't.

 

[Scott Sommers]

again-
so what your saying is that no one can find paint chips that have the same characteristics as the material prof jones found?? am i right?

I'm confused about you mean. Do you mean that Dr. Steve found a paint chip? Of course he did.

Let me put it another way, I am not an expert in this area, but then neither are you. And ironically, I have read the CV of Steven Jones, and neither is he. So here we have a bunch of non-experts arguing about the dust from building collapses during the 911 attacks. What's more is that some of them say they have an expert opinion when clearly they don't.

Truther Senenmut, you may think this claim of thermite is more reasonable than say, nuclear weapons or space-based ray guns, but it's not. There's a whole thermite research community in the USA and not one of them, not even one of them, has said even one focking word on this. Sure, they're shape-shifting reptiles, too. Isn't that what're going to say? And what's more is that for 8 years, you and your Truther buddies seem to have missed this point. Why aren't you and your CIT buddies out picketing conferences for energetic material research,
http://www.grc.org/programs.aspx?year=2010&program=energetic
where presumably the scientists who made this magic thermite must be. Or was it made in an underwater city where the UFOs land?

You know why? 'Cause you guys don't even know what I'm talking about. And if you'd know what I'm talking about, why should anybody here or anywhere else take you seriously. You know why? Because they don't.

Get a brain. Or better yet, get a degree. That way, you might be able to say something about this that doesn't get laughed at.

 

[Senenmut]

No, what he is saying it is prof jones's responsibility to show those paint chips are what he claims they are, not ours to prove they aren't.

there are plenty of paints out there that produce iron microspheres when heat to 430c....just pick one!!

 

[Senenmut]

I'm confused about you mean. Do you mean that Dr. Steve found a paint chip? Of course he did.

Let me put it another way, I am not an expert in this area, but then neither are you. And ironically, I have read the CV of Steven Jones, and neither is he. So here we have a bunch of non-experts arguing about the dust from building collapses during the 911 attacks. What's more is that some of them say they have an expert opinion when clearly they don't.

Truther Senenmut, you may think this claim of thermite is more reasonable than say, nuclear weapons or space-based ray guns, but it's not. There's a whole thermite research community in the USA and not one of them, not even one of them, has said even one focking word on this. Sure, they're shape-shifting reptiles, too. Isn't that what're going to say? And what's more is that for 8 years, you and your Truther buddies seem to have missed this point. Why aren't you and your CIT buddies out picketing conferences for energetic material research,
http://www.grc.org/programs.aspx?year=2010&program=energetic
where presumably the scientists who made this magic thermite must be. Or was it made in an underwater city where the UFOs land?

You know why? 'Cause you guys don't even know what I'm talking about. And if you'd know what I'm talking about, why should anybody here or anywhere else take you seriously. You know why? Because they don't.

Get a brain. Or better yet, get a degree. That way, you might be able to say something about this that doesn't get laughed at.

but your forgetting something skeptic scott in taiwan...thermate + steel shows the same charactistic corrosion as found by Barnett et al!

 

[Macgyver1968]

there are plenty of paints out there that produce iron microspheres when heat to 430c....just pick one!!

There are plenty of ways to apply painted on nanothermite to a vertical column in order to cut through it...just pick one!!!

To the best of my knowledge, Jones has never said how the nanothermite was used to bring down the towers...he's just sure it WAS used.

 

[carlitos]

No, now we're back to thermAte. Stay with us, Macgyver! This whole subforum is doing a retro 2006 weekend. Next up, Justin Timberlake and Christina Aguilera...

 

[Scott Sommers]

but your forgetting something skeptic scott in taiwan...thermate + steel shows the same charactistic corrosion as found by Barnett et al!

What...and all the thermite experts in the world have missed this. You have no idea if it does. This is made up science. Honestly, do you really think if all this crap is true that the only place in the world you'd be talking about this is the JREF? Why don't you and Truther Barnett try some of those energetic materials conferences? Oh I forgot...they're all shape-shifting reptiles.

Honestly, if you guys can go to one of a genuine energetic materials conference and present a paper on this thermate discovery, I will bow down and worship you. Let me try this one. Send me an abstract. Get Truther Barnett to send me an abstract. I'll send it in and I'll post whatever they send me back. Come on dude, take my dare. Show me what a fool I am.

I will write a public apology and become a Truther like you.

 

[Dave Rogers]

so what your saying is that no one can find paint chips that have the same characteristics as the material prof jones found?? am i right?

No, you're completely wrong, and anyone reading my post could see I was saying nothing of the sort. Why do conspiracy theorists persist on seeing things that aren't there? Harrit et al have not provided reasonable evidence of the presence of thermite in the towers, since they have done so there is nothing to refute, and so I'm saying that no serious journal would feel a refutation worth bothering to print. Try reading the post a second time; you may find the absence of the word "paint" a bit of a giveaway.

but your forgetting something skeptic scott in taiwan...thermate + steel shows the same charactistic corrosion as found by Barnett et al!

So says Steven Jones. I think he's probably lying; at best, he's offered no evidence whatsoever beyond his bare assertion. Again, that's not worth taking seriously.

Dave

 

[Macgyver1968]

No, now we're back to thermAte. Stay with us, Macgyver! This whole subforum is doing a retro 2006 weekend. Next up, Justin Timberlake and Christina Aguilera...

Dangit!....I guess "tribal" tattoos are cool again.

Let me re-phrase:

There are plenty of ways to apply thermate to a vertical column in order to cut through it...just pick one!!!

To the best of my knowledge, Jones has never said how the thermate was used to bring down the towers...he's just sure it WAS used.


There...now are you happy?

but wait Mac...that didn't change a damn thing!

 

[T.A.M.]

again-
so what your saying is that no one can find paint chips that have the same characteristics as the material prof jones found?? am i right?

No one to date, including many reputable independent scientists have found any thermite in their samples of WTC dust. Many of them have found paint chips. Given they were smart enough to realize they are just paint chips, I doubt they tested them to see if they were secret nanothermite.

The bigger question is, has anyone else who has access to Jones chips, found similar chips to the ones Jones claims are thermite, and if they had, were they able to reproduce his findings.

henri-co (a user on this forum) claims that what chips he found in the samples Jones sent him (this is the closest Jones would get to having anyone else analyze his samples....a fellow truther) would not reproduce the findings of Jones...henri's answer....they must have been planted in their by someone who accessed his mail (secretly).

TAM

 

[Senenmut]

No, you're completely wrong, and anyone reading my post could see I was saying nothing of the sort. Why do conspiracy theorists persist on seeing things that aren't there? Harrit et al have not provided reasonable evidence of the presence of thermite in the towers, since they have done so there is nothing to refute, and so I'm saying that no serious journal would feel a refutation worth bothering to print. Try reading the post a second time; you may find the absence of the word "paint" a bit of a giveaway.

so your saying there is plenty of paint out there that produce iron microspheres when heated to 430?

So says Steven Jones. I think he's probably lying; at best, he's offered no evidence whatsoever beyond his bare assertion. Again, that's not worth taking seriously

Dave

why do you think it would NOT produce the same results?

 

[twinstead]

is there a term for somebody who answers questions with other questions instead of actually addressing the issues?

 

[Dave Rogers]

so your saying there is plenty of paint out there that produce iron microspheres when heated to 430?

You seem to be reading a completely different set of words to the ones I've posted. Please stop it.

why do you think it would NOT produce the same results?

I really cannot figure out what that question is supposed to refer to; it's clearly not related in any way whatsoever to anything I wrote. If you want a discussion, could you at least try to be coherent?

Dave

 

[Senenmut]

Dangit!....I guess "tribal" tattoos are cool again.

Let me re-phrase:

There are plenty of ways to apply thermate to a vertical column in order to cut through it...just pick one!!!

To the best of my knowledge, Jones has never said how the thermate was used to bring down the towers...he's just sure it WAS used.


There...now are you happy?

but wait Mac...that didn't change a damn thing!

could have been to destory a connection....or could have been just to weaken it in a particular area....... or depending on which direction one would want the steel to bend, just apply it to one side.
take for instance:

"One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized.

Less clear was whether the beam had been charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble, or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's collapse, which would provide a more telling clue.

The answer lay in the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion had buckled outward.

''This tells me it buckled while it was attached to the column,'' not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, ''It had burned first, then buckled.''

 

[Scott Sommers]

could have been to destory a connection....or could have been just to weaken it in a particular area....... or depending on which direction one would want the steel to bend, just apply it to one side.
take for instance:

"One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized.

Less clear was whether the beam had been charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble, or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's collapse, which would provide a more telling clue.

The answer lay in the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion had buckled outward.

''This tells me it buckled while it was attached to the column,'' not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, ''It had burned first, then buckled.''

Who knows what 'it' could do? Since no one is even sure that 'it' exists. That's why I dare you and your team of Truther scientists, join me in submitting an abstract to any of numerous upcoming conferences on energetic materials.

Let's make sure this message gets past a few trouble makers on the JREF out to the people who can really make a difference. Let's make this real science - you and me together. Just think what this could mean for the cause of liberty!

 

[Senenmut]

You seem to be reading a completely different set of words to the ones I've posted. Please stop it.



I really cannot figure out what that question is supposed to refer to; it's clearly not related in any way whatsoever to anything I wrote. If you want a discussion, could you at least try to be coherent?

Dave

I am asking you why thermate would NOT have the same corrosion characteristics as the piece described by barnett et al.

 

[Scott Sommers]

I am asking you why thermate would NOT have the same corrosion characteristics as the piece described by barnett et al.

Is this a real question? You gotta be joking? Right? The point of my conference challenge is that no one believes Jones. And I mean no one. There is no thermite expert on Earth who believes him. And he is no expert on thermite, either. That's why I keep saying you have to go a conference and demonstrate this in front of experts on energetic materials. They will tell you - and the rest the world if it's real or not. Then I will bow down and worship you Truth swine. Until then. I will call you liars and pigs.

But I bet a million dollars you give me some answer that shows you didn't even understand my point.

 

[BigAl]

I am asking you why thermate would NOT have the same corrosion characteristics as the piece described by barnett et al.

Because the chemical and physical processes bear no relationship to each other.

 

[The Almond]

so your saying there is plenty of paint out there that produce iron microspheres when heated to 430?

Jones didn't prove that his sample did, either. He showed secondary electron images of one sample, then burned a completely different sample and showed the results. Epic failure.

To answer your other asinine questions, the paint in question was the anti-corrosive coating applied to all of the major structural members in the twin towers. The organic binder used in the coating combusts at approximately 400 C, and the pigment used iron oxide as a colorant. This is probably the 10th time I've had to repeat this.

Let me ask you a question: Have you ever taken sunflower seeds, dipped them in 18 M acetic acid, then coated them in silver paint, then put them in an oven at 1000 C, and analyzed the ash? Why not?

Don't bother answering, that was a rhetorical question. The reason is, the above described process won't tell you anything about the sunflower seeds. Their reaction to acetic acid is trivial, what they look like when they're silver is meaningless, the ash product contains very little of the original structure and is equally meaningless. If you want to prove it's a sunflower seed, you can do a DNA test. If you want to determine the viability of the seed, you can plant it.

Where am I going with this? No one has ever shown that you can determine if a material is "thermitic" by separating it out with a magnet from an amalgamated dust sample, soaking it in MEK and then setting it on fire. Jones is using a meaningless process, pointing to the ash and saying, "See? Because you can't reproduce it using Home Depot brand latex paint, the material must be thermite!!!" More to the point, if Jones wants to prove that his material is thermite, he has to do the appropriate tests to eliminate the contender materials. To date, he's done nothing that warrants anything other than ridicule.