Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures

[Bluekush623]

You seem really insecure when it comes to intelligence; lashing out at and projecting onto others. Have you considered seeing a therapist or even a councilor? It may help with other areas in your life as well.

No insecurity here. I'm just stating what i have come too know.

 

[JimBenArm]

and what you fail to understand is mala prohibitium (policy) and mala in se (true crime) are not the same

and that consent must be given for mala prohibitium too have any jurisdiction.

Want to show where that's written? I don't remember seeing that anywhere in my copy of the Constitution. Can you point me to that part?

Or is that too (excuse me, two) hard?

 

[Bluekush623]

as ignorant and unintelligent this place is, he sure posts here a lot

because its partially funny how ignorant you guys are.

 

[Bluekush623]

I claimed that the clear majority of FOTL sites do not follow your definition and are instead frauds and con artists seeking to escape debts and crimes. I can easily provide websites showing this to be the case. You have claimed it is only a small sect. Prove it. Please provide any sort of evidence that those FOTL are outnumbered by your FOTL.

I am willing to accept that some FOTL are not frauds, but I have yet to be convinced that these FOTL are having any success working towards their goal. I would suggest starting a thread in USA Politics explaining that you are not one of the criminally-minded FOTL and begin by explaining your current goal and the methods you use to attain it.

This thread is pretty devoted to the other kind of FOTL.

And how do you know what I or anyone else here is doing? How do you know which politicians I vote for and which lobbying organizations I support?

I like how you ignored that fact that i mentioned the OP of this thread has nothing to do with fraud or criminal intent.

 

[volatile]

This is a problem of equivocation. When most people talk about FOTL, they are referring to the belief among many people that laws do not apply to them if they declare themselves sovereign by invoking some combination of "magic words" in a legal setting such as a courtroom. When you talk about FOTL, you are referring to your belief that people should be free to do things that don't hurt other people.

Can you see how those two things are different? Can you see how the confusion between these two meanings is preventing any productive discussion?

I think you will find that if you clearly define your terms, there will be a lot of people here who would be sympathetic with your opinion.

The worse thing is that he seems to oscillate between the two - between the "is" and the "ought". The "ought" might be an interesting discussion. The "is" is just delusional.

 

[Bluekush623]

This is a problem of equivocation. When most people talk about FOTL, they are referring to the belief among many people that laws do not apply to them if they declare themselves sovereign by invoking some combination of "magic words" in a legal setting such as a courtroom. When you talk about FOTL, you are referring to your belief that people should be free to do things that don't hurt other people.

Can you see how those two things are different? Can you see how the confusion between these two meanings is preventing any productive discussion?

I think you will find that if you clearly define your terms, there will be a lot of people here who would be sympathetic with your opinion.

Yes the problem is JREF jumps the gun and calls all FOTL woo.

However there is no difference between claiming sovereignty and living peacefully amongst others humans, only you are creating the difference and labeling the frauds into the same pile.

And stop saying magic words. those same words formed American society.

 

[Bluekush623]

This is exactly as if I entered a thread about Naziism and defended Nazis, saying they are all about love and tenderness and sunshine, then, when the abundant evidence to the contrary is revealed, claim that those are just the "bad" Nazis and you can't prove they're ALL like that.

ETA: Yeah, Godwin. I know.

talk about fishing.

 

[Bluekush623]

The main difficulty I have with BK623 arguement is that the Constitution and the actions of the US government and people at this period show no indication of the concept of individual consent. People knew what they were getting into, a republic, republics don't operate well as anarchy based self-government.

go read up on "consent of the governed".

 

[Bluekush623]

Also, comparing FOTLers to the American founding fathers is beyond absurd. Mockery and derision are the only appropriate responses to that.

you are just completely wrong.

 

[Toke]

go read up on "consent of the governed".

If you look at history or just most of the world today, you will see that consent is not a requirement for government.
It is perfectly possible to govern at sword or gunpoint.

 

[Sledge]

talk about fishing.

I wish you would, you're doing a crap job talking about FOTL.

 

[Bluekush623]

Ah, anarchy. I love it. So, you get to pick and chose which laws you want to obey. How convenient!

"I like the drug laws, so I'll consent to those, but not the speed limits, so I can drive how I like. Nancy is the exact opposite, so if you see her driving and not me, go ahead and pull her ass over."

That'll make for a better society. You betcha!

do you even understand the difference between mala in se and mala prohibitum?
Until you do i would stop posting your opinions.

 

[Bluekush623]

If you look at history or just most of the world today, you will see that consent is not a requirement for government.
It is perfectly possible to govern at sword or gunpoint.

of course, but then you dont live in the land of the free.

 

[Sledge]

Let's try a simple question: are you saying the FOTL is how the American legal system works now, or is FOTL a hypothetical suggestion for improvement to the existing system?

 

[Toke]

of course, but then you dont live in the land of the free.

I can't help imagining some peon telling the nobleman "I do not consent to your governing me, and BTW that is not a sword-tip at my throat, and even if it were I do not cons.........

This is not in principle much different to some FOTL babbling in a modern court.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

do you even understand the difference between mala in se and mala prohibitum?
Until you do i would stop posting your opinions.

Here is the difference: posting profanity on this site is malum prohibitum; your arguments are mala in se.

 

[Bluekush623]

Let's try a simple question: are you saying the FOTL is how the American legal system works now, or is FOTL a hypothetical suggestion for improvement to the existing system?

it is a remedy to the current system.

 

[Bluekush623]

I can't help imagining some peon telling the nobleman "I do not consent to your governing me, and BTW that is not a sword-tip at my throat, and even if it were I do not cons.........

This is not in principle much different to some FOTL babbling in a modern court.

So are you admitting America is no longer free?

 

[Sledge]

it is a remedy to the current system.

In that case, you are in the wrong thread. The people this thread refers to are not suggesting FOTL would be an improvement on the current system, they claim it IS the current system. Perhaps you could start a thread on your views on FOTL?

Also, could you use the multi-quote feature? It's quite annoying to reply to you, then have to edit the post to include a quote because you've posted again in the intervening time.

 

[Bluekush623]

In that case, you are in the wrong thread. The people this thread refers to are not suggesting FOTL would be an improvement on the current system, they claim it IS the current system. Perhaps you could start a thread on your views on FOTL?

Also, could you use the multi-quote feature? It's quite annoying to reply to you, then have to edit the post to include a quote because you've posted again in the intervening time.

Did you read what i wrote? I said it is a remedy to the "current system" not that it is an improved system.