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Lambda-CDM theory - Woo or not?

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Michael Mozina said:
Of course it is, but that has never stopped them or even slowed them down. :) Their sacred beliefs have been questioned. In most religions they would just call me a pawn of satan. Since they can't do that, and their unseen entities are impotent on Earth, the best they can do is call me names. :)
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Ah, I see you're back! Are you sure you don't have any more software to deal with?
BTW, what do you have to do with software? Do you work in the shipping department?
 
Tubbythin said:
Care to tell us all why the laws of the Universe be such that all aspects of physics should be testable in a lab on or before the date of June the 4th 2010? Because that seems to be your argument.
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By what date shall I expect inflation to show up in a lab experiment?
 
ben m said:
You haven't told me my budget yet.

(You haven't told me why the Universe should care what my budget is.)
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The last time I gave you an unrestricted budget you simply "assumed" the "cause" of lambda and failed to show any cause/effect relationships. What did you have in mind this time?
 
Michael Mozina said:
By what date shall I expect inflation to show up in a lab experiment?
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Why should you expect it to show up in a lab? Labs are things that are designed for the conveinience of humans. Why should the laws of physics be such that they can be understood and relevant quantities measured from experiments the same scale as that of human labs? Why, unless your proposing an anthropocentricly designed universe (which really would be dipping into religion) would anyone possibly expect that to be the case? I seriously have no idea.
 
DeiRenDopa said:
Did scientists in the 1870s have a date when they "expected inflation helium to show up in a lab experiment"?

(there are lots of examples like this)
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Unlike your dead inflation deity, helium still exists today on Earth and it performs perfectly in the lab like all the other elements on the periodic table. When is inflation going to show up on Earth?
 
Perpetual Student said:
Ah, I see you're back! Are you sure you don't have any more software to deal with?
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Wishful thinking on your part? :) A programmers work is never done, but sometimes they take a break. :)

BTW, what do you have to do with software? Do you work in the shipping department?
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Well, maybe in a pinch, but I wrote/write the actual software, even that nasty math part that does the actual accounting. :)
 
Michael Mozina said:
Godflation, god energy and god matter have exactly the same measurable effect as your three metaphysical amigos. All we have to do is rename the metaphysical variables!
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Um, Michael? Renaming things has no effect on anything. Two theories for which the math is exactly the same are not two theories, they're one theory.

It's like saying "You think Einstein's GR explains the orbit of Mercury around the Sun? Well I think BOZO's GRAVIBLOOEY explains the orbit of POOH BEAR around the QUANGLE-WANGLE. The math describing the graviblooey curvature near the quangle-wangle is identical to the math describing GR, so you can't prove me wrong!" No we can't, we can just back away slowly and hum soothingly until the doctor shows up with the anaesthetic darts.
 
Michael Mozina said:
DeiRenDopa said:
Did scientists in the 1870s have a date when they "expected inflation helium to show up in a lab experiment"?

(there are lots of examples like this)
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Unlike your dead inflation deity, helium still exists today on Earth and it performs perfectly in the lab like all the other elements on the periodic table. When is inflation going to show up on Earth?
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Indeed.

However, in the 1870s no one knew when (or even if) helium would show up in the lab.

To quote TT: "Care to tell us all why the laws of the Universe be such that all aspects of physics should be testable in a lab on or before the date of June the 4th 2010? Because that seems to be your argument."

Oh, and my "dead inflation deity"? What are you talking about?
 
Michael Mozina said:
Unlike your dead inflation deity,
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Please look up the meaning of "dead" and "deity". Either you are being unbelieveably intellectually dishonest (and thus a hypocrite) or you do not know what either of these words mean.

helium still exists today and Earth and it performs in the lab like all the other elements on the periodic table.
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Now that is definitely intellectual dishonesty. Rather than answering the question you make an utterly irrelevant statement. Please answer DRD's question. In case you'd forgotten:
Did scientists in the 1870s have a date when they "expected inflation helium to show up in a lab experiment"?
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Michael Mozina said:
So instead of actually addressing the key point of my argument, you're still dancing around the problem by playing games with my words? Care to address the issue?
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Your argument? You say that as if you've actually made an argument. Your "argument", as you call it, is a series of whining complaints amounting to nothing more than your tacit admission that you don't understand contemporary astrophysics. If what you're babbling about is an argument at all it is an argument from ignorance.
 
DeiRenDopa said:
Indeed.

However, in the 1870s no one knew when (or even if) helium would show up in the lab.
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No one then claimed it was made of something exotic that would not show up on Earth. Does inflation supposedly even exist in nature at this point in time?

To quote TT: "Care to tell us all why the laws of the Universe be such that all aspects of physics should be testable in a lab on or before the date of June the 4th 2010? Because that seems to be your argument."
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AFAIK, "dark energy" is completely impotent around objects with mass and therefore it's a no show here on Earth. AFAIK, inflation is non existent in the universe too. Am I mistaken?

Oh, and my "dead inflation deity"? What are you talking about?
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Do you believe in inflation, yes or no?

What evidence do you have that inflation "causes" anything? It's non existent today as far as I know. It's not real. I know the individual that "invented" it in his head without any sort of precedent whatsoever.

Why would you compare something so ad hoc, to something that has already by seen in the lab and was never an 'ad hoc' assertion in the first place? Nobody may have been able to demonstrate those specific photon emissions at that point in time, but nothing prevented that from happening in the future. When will inflation happen again?
 
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Tubbythin said:
Michael Mozina said:
The last time I gave you an unrestricted budget you simply "assumed" the "cause" of lambda and failed to show any cause/effect relationships. What did you have in mind this time?
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Quote please. Because I missed that one.
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I vaguely remember MM's response; if he (or someone else) doesn't cite it soon(ish), I'll do so.

IIRC, it is - yet another - wonderful example of a weird form of logic only MM (apparently) understands.
 
GeeMack said:
I don't have any made up invisible friends, and your inference that I do is another of your lies.
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Of course you do. You have a close, mathematical, emotionally attached, relationship going with three different forms of invisible entities that fail to show up on Earth and are either "dark" or "dead". :)
 
Michael Mozina said:
The last time I gave you an unrestricted budget you simply "assumed" the "cause" of lambda and failed to show any cause/effect relationships. What did you have in mind this time?
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No I didn't. I proposed an experiment to measure lambda and to exclude all known non-GR forces.

If such an experiment sees lambda nonzero, then one of the following must be true:

a) There is an entirely new force (not EM, not gravity, not the weak force, etc.) acting on the experiment and producing the lambda-like effects.

b) The nonzero lambda is due to the ordinary, predictable GR effect of a constant vacuum energy.

That's it, Michael. That's what you get. How many times do I have to explain this? How many times? Hellooooooo?
 
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