Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[Sword_Of_Truth]

He's aware of both sides of the history of the problem.

Well then why does he seem to think Israel shouldn't be attempting to prevent weapons smuggling into an area controlled by a terrorist group?

Is he a frakking idiot?

 

[Kotatsu]

Well then why does he seem to think Israel shouldn't be attempting to prevent weapons smuggling into an area controlled by a terrorist group?

Is he a frakking idiot?

What weapons are you talking about? The guns the peace activists took from Israeli soldiers who invaded their ship? Or is this about the crescent wrenches, wooden bats, scarves and lengths of rope again?

 

[richardm]

What weapons are you talking about? The guns the peace activists took from Israeli soldiers who invaded their ship? Or is this about the crescent wrenches, wooden bats, scarves and lengths of rope again?

He's talking about the potential for weapons to be brought in if unfettered access to Gaza from the sea was allowed.

 

[bigjelmapro]

the 22 is the number of Israeli died do to the rockets launched into Israel.

So the logic is to allow more weapons into Gaza so Hamas has the capability to kill more?

 

[DC]

So the logic is to allow more weapons into Gaza so Hamas has the capability to kill more?

no. never said that.

 

[bigjelmapro]

the problems is the rockets that are used to fire at Israel, them heaving weappons is not your business.
i would try it without a bloackade that lets 1.5 million suffer and so make the situation even worse by radicalizing them even further.

also would i actually stopp the provocations on Israels side, like settlements etc.

How is it not Israel's business if these weapons are in fact used against Israel by Hamas who's weapons are smuggled into Gaza via land and, previously, by sea.

Your solution is to do nothing in hope that the population won't radicalize itself and hope for the best. All this while the Hamas charter has remained the same since 1987 up until today through periods of relative calm over the more than 3 decades since 1987.

There are no settlements in Gaza. If there's final status agreements between the Palestinians and Israel, this would solve the brunt of the arguments for Israelis residing in Israel with illegal outposts, the legal ones (ie existing prior and during the mandate by land legally bought), compensation for refugees on both sides, and land swaps. This is not done via lobbing missiles, mortars and attacking the land entry points for humanitarian aid and trade.

Again, Karine-A is an example of why this blockade was put in place. Respond to that.

 

[bigjelmapro]

no. never said that.

So what's the point in referring to that obviously underrated number of Israelis killed? To display that these weapons used by Hamas, and previously Fatah, from Gaza against Israel are not deadly enough to justify a naval blockade and act of retorsion?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

So the logic is to allow more weapons into Gaza so Hamas has the capability to kill more?

There is a shocking number of people who think this is exactly and literally what Israel should be doing. They take the fact of israels competence in its own defense as proof israel is the bad guy.

It's as if these people, if they were the leaders of their own countries, would seek to achieve parity in casualties between their country and an opponent in time of war instead of seeking to minimize losses of their own civilians and servicemen.

 

[DC]

So what's the point in referring to that obviously underrated number of Israelis killed? To display that these weapons used by Hamas, and previously Fatah, from Gaza against Israel are not deadly enough to justify a naval blockade and act of retorsion?

yes. i question if it is enough to let 1.5 million people suffer.

 

[bigjelmapro]

And as can clearly be seen in the videos linked to earlier, they did their best to dissuade the Israeli from entering the ships, but these persevered. They could just have, you know, not entered a ship filled with people with pipes and chains and scarves and stools.

I wouldn't really label it as 'dissuade', especially with the pile of weapons on the ready for the presumed boarding.

Not boarding the ship would result in more people trying to break the blockade and refusing to be boarded to be searched for materials that can aid Hamas in the war effort. In addition to the large amount of money found on the boarded ship (could've been more) that would be transferred to Hamas. This money is not classified as humanitarian aid but rather financing a known terrorist organization.

To my knowledge this carries a hefty prison sentence in other countries. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[JihadJane]

Hamas is just plain EVIL.

As oposed to evil with make-up on?

You want transparency. They give you transparency, and when it doesn't support your prejudice, you call it propaganda. Nice.

Ha ha! Destroying and/or seizing evidence is transparency! Stop it. I’m going to wet myself!

The soldiers in the helicopter don't have the luxury of foresight. At the moment, their fellow soldiers lives were endanger, and they acted.

By shooting people in the head.

 

[bigjelmapro]

yes. i question if it is enough to let 1.5 million people suffer.

Why do you keep bringing up this suffering of 1.5 million when this flotilla was carrying 10,000 tons of humanitarian aid of which is transferred on a greater scale on a bi-weekly basis into Gaza by land via Israel?

In addition to the standing offers of both Egypt and Israel to transfer this humanitarian aid that woudl come in via the sea through the appropriate channels?

I find it strange though, instead of carrying those 700-800 people on that one ship, they could've carried another approximately 105,000-120,000 lbs (approx. 150lbs per person) of extra humanitarian aid on that one ship if they truely cared for this suffering.

Lastly, this doesn't answer the inclusion of the Israeli deaths. You're pedaling here, once again.

 

[a_unique_person]

Well then why does he seem to think Israel shouldn't be attempting to prevent weapons smuggling into an area controlled by a terrorist group?

Is he a frakking idiot?

He doesn't appear to be. Perhaps you didn't understand the article.

 

[bigjelmapro]

By shooting people in the head.

Where do you get this?

And the use of lethal force is not taken when attacked?

Just for the sake of it, google this phrase for me and see how many hits you get: "police shot knife wielding man"

Notice the locations too. I'm sure they were charged with war crimes as well.

 

[a_unique_person]

Why do you keep bringing up this suffering of 1.5 million when this flotilla was carrying 10,000 tons of humanitarian aid of which is transferred on a greater scale on a bi-weekly basis into Gaza by land via Israel?

In addition to the standing offers of both Egypt and Israel to transfer this humanitarian aid that woudl come in via the sea through the appropriate channels?

I find it strange though, instead of carrying those 700-800 people on that one ship, they could've carried another approximately 105,000-120,000 lbs (approx. 150lbs per person) of extra humanitarian aid on that one ship if they truely cared for this suffering.

Lastly, this doesn't answer the inclusion of the Israeli deaths. You're pedaling here, once again.

If you read the articles I quoted, the aid that Israel allows in is enough to survive on in terms of calories, but not nutrition. The people of Gaza are suffering malnutrition.

 

[JihadJane]

Activists describe Israeli raid on Gaza aid convoy:

Bulent Yildrim is head of the Istanbul-based Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (IHH), which organised the flotilla.

Upon his arrival back in Turkey, he admitted some of the activists had grabbed the guns off soldiers in self-defence.

"Yes, we took their guns. It would be self-defence even if we fired their guns. We told our friends on board: 'We will die, become martyrs, but never let us be shown... as the ones who used guns'. By this decision, our friends accepted death, and we threw all the guns we took from them into the sea."

He described how a doctor and a journalist were both shot at close range, and said another activist was shot as he was surrendering.

"I took off my shirt and waved it, as a white flag. We thought they would stop after seeing the white flag, but they continued killing people," he said.

 

[lionking]

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/05/20105319333613851.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7766509.stm

The guarantee is worthless, when the long term effect is being felt.

I thought I answered your question. But there will be no resolution till there is a Palestinian state and the settlements stop, and even then, there will be bitterness and ill will for years to come, probably violence too. If you look at Ireland, the healing of time is very slow. Even the US has recognised the role of settlements in aggravating the situation, and repeatedly demanded they be stopped.

Aljazrra and a two year old BBC report?? Sorry, hardly credible.

The reasons Ireland has become more peaceful are many, but the main reason IMO is that the people of Ireland said "enough". If and when the Palestineans say the same, eschew Hamas and change their desire to destroy Israel, there may be progress.

 

[a_unique_person]

Where do you get this?

And the use of lethal force is not taken when attacked?

Are you saying the people on the ship should have responded with more violence?

 

[The Fool]

Your imagination is wild.
You really think those thugs would have let the IDF aboard the ships peacefully?
What a joke.

yes I do think they would...if the deal is no weapons = proceed freely...glad you find it amusing...

 

[WildCat]

Your imagination is wild.
You really think those thugs would have let the IDF aboard the ships peacefully?
What a joke.

And, of course, it's easy to completely search a loaded ship at sea! No way could weapons be hidden underneath stuff!