Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[Jono]

I read about this attack last night, on yahoo even as I went online, at least I think it was about that time. Anywhooo, I wasn't surprised, due to two reasons:
1) I had heard about potential aid ships planning to go to Gaza a week or two earlier, so I knew there would be controversial updates down the road.
2)The process of getting relief, aid et al into Gaza has been a swollen, touchy pimple in the face of this Middle Eastern craziness for quite a while. So, those who came up with the idea of starting up international flotillas bound for Gaza, should've anticipated deaths, or severe injuries at minimum (I suspect they might have, perhaps even an inherent goading purpose?). I certainly did.

There's simply no way to avoid civilian causalties in this mess, unless you have the flotilla protected by either armed US ships or scores of UN ones (allthough it would, in hindsight, probably make it worse). Either swamp the entire Gaza coastline with enough ships relief workers and activists that the IDF simply wont know which side is up or down, or don't bother trying with these half-arsed and consequently unfortunate stunts.

 

[Eddie Dane]

I look forward to EJ's posts in the near future.

'Apartheid pirate pogrom' sounds kinda catchy.

 

[JihadJane]

I agree with Pardalis that this seems bafflingly suspicious.

I'm assuming this is sarcasm... please confirm!

 

[Kotatsu]

I too was clueless as to what happened until 4pm, when I got back from work. How did all these people get organized so quickly in a few hours of the raid on a work day? Maybe it has to do with the new social medias, but even with those it's awfully quick.

I know that I learned about the protest from a friend who got a text message from one of her friends, and just minutes later, when I mentioned it to a friend over Skype, he had just heard of it from another person via a text message. We checked some of the local and national newspapers, and most of them had information about where and when these protests would take place on their homepages, and in a general call-in program on radio, a man called in to inform all the listeners that there'd be a protest. There were large posters all over town, and I've seen calls for solidarity on several blogs and stuff.

So yes, my guess would be that the Ship to Gaza crowd and their various friend-organisations had decided that if something happens -- and there was every reason to suspect something would -- then they'd organise a protest that very day. Once it became known what had happened, they just put these plans in action and mobilized their friend-organisations, and private individuals and so on. Some people are actually employed by political parties, NGOs, churches and so on, and can actually plan and organise these things on a work day without taking time off, as it is part of their work, you know.

On the other hand, of the 16 speeches that were held at the protest I attended, only two seemed to be rehearsed: one was from the Church of Sweden (they read out their official press release stance thing) and one from the "Liberal" party, which was also a reading-out of a written statement. The rest seemed to have had approximately eight hours to plan their speeches in, and did a wonderful job despite having been to work all day.

---

I would also say that which conflicts get public protests would depend on where you live. I regularly see pro-Kurdistan protests, protests against whatever has happened in Iran that week, and so on.

 

[WildCat]

what term do you want us to use, when we want to describe the punishment of all palestinians for the acts of a few? like in the case of the blockade for example.

we could aslo call it terror? thats better?

Hey DC, in another thread you stated that Israel should just go after Hamas and arrest them.

How do you think this could be done? Do you favor a complete ground invasion of Gaza?

 

[Pardalis]

All one had to do to feel outraged enough to go out on to the streets was read a good old-fashioned news report.

98 people of the sect Ahmadi were killed over the weekend in Pakistan, 10 more later were attacked at the hospital where they were treated. 20 000 Sri Lankans were killed two years ago and I didn't see anyone on the streets to protest, only world government said it was "unfortunate loss of life". 500 Kurds murdered here, 35 thais murdered there, Iranian protesters emprisonned and tortured everyday...

I'm just saying there you guys have a very selective outrage.

 

[Kotatsu]

I'm assuming this is sarcasm... please confirm!

I was hoping my purportedly humorous footnotes would give this away, but in case there is some lingering doubt: your assessment is correct.

 

[JihadJane]

It always astonishes me that people can accuse Israel of being the height of absolute evil, but not notice the ridiculous restraint it displays. If it were really that nasty, it could have simply sunk all the boats from the air, or mined the approach to Gaza and let them discover that for themselves. Instead it warned them in advance they would be boarded, then did so, risking the lives of its own soldiers. But then, if Israel were as evil as its enemies claim, there wouldn't be a Gaza or anyone in it to begin with.

Yup, risking the lives of their soldiers in the most provocative and stupid way their commanders could think of, apparently.

No-one on this thread has accused Israel "of being the height of absolute evil". Why do you need to introduce this strawman?

Your suggestions are somewhat psychopathic but if Israel had sunk the boats from the air even the US might be forced to withdraw its support and that would be the end of Israel as we know it.

 

[DC]

Hey DC, in another thread you stated that Israel should just go after Hamas and arrest them.

How do you think this could be done? Do you favor a complete ground invasion of Gaza?

well i didn't know Hamas terrorists were on the ship. in that case i support how Israel acted.

 

[JihadJane]

98 people of the sect Ahmadi were killed over the weekend in Pakistan, 10 more later were attacked at the hospital where they were treated. 20 000 Sri Lankans were killed two years ago and I didn't see anyone on the streets to protest, only world government said it was "unfortunate loss of life". 500 Kurds murdered here, 35 thais murdered there, Iranian protesters emprisonned and tortured everyday...

I'm just saying there you guys have a very selective outrage.

Probably because Israel is nominally part of "civilized" Europe and because of the long-term, escalating quality of Israel's unpunished outrages against the imprisoned population of Gaza. We saw the same kind of attention being given to South Africa. Additionally, the Middle East is much in the news nowadays and the region's politics represent the most likely catalyst for nuclear war.

Perhaps you'd now like to tell us about your own, presumably non-selective outrage.

 

[JihadJane]

well i didn't know Hamas terrorists were on the ship. in that case i support how Israel acted.

Is this sarcasm?

(Thanks for confirmation, Kotatsu!)

 

[DC]

Is this sarcasm?

no, when there were Hamas terrorists , then i can understand Israel.

 

[Pardalis]

Probably because Israel is nominally part of "civilized" Europe and because of the long-term, escalating quality of Israel's unpunished outrages against the imprisoned population of Gaza. We saw the same kind of attention being given to South Africa. Additionally, the Middle East is much in the news nowadays and the region's politics represent the most likely catalyst for nuclear war.

Perhaps you'd now like to tell us about your own, presumably non-selective outrage.

I doubt you'll join me if I organized an anti-Taliban march. Pakistan is not part of the "Western civilized world", why would anyone care, right?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Yup, risking the lives of their soldiers in the most provocative and stupid way their commanders could think of, apparently.

You lack imagination if you think that was the most provocative way. They could have simply arranged a few "accidents" before those boats even put out to sea.

No-one on this thread has accused Israel "of being the height of absolute evil". Why do you need to introduce this strawman?

Oh, they don't say it outright, but there are plenty here who think it. Which again shows lack of imagination. Israel doesn't use anything close to its full resources in its conflicts with its neighbors.

Your suggestions are somewhat psychopathic

Thanks. But nations aren't people, and what's wrong for a person is sometimes practical for a nation.

but if Israel had sunk the boats from the air even the US might be forced to withdraw its support

Why? International opinion? That's already as low as can be, nothing can change that. Everybody hates Israel, and most hate the US. But we're here, we're queer, and it would take one hell of a fight to get rid of either or both of us.

and that would be the end of Israel as we know it.

It would present more difficulties for Israel if it lost its friend, but I expect they'd manage. They seem to have a good military, and anywhere from zero to hundreds of nukes doesn't hurt. Although you might be right in that such an Israel might have to change from how we know it. It might have to stop playing nice.

 

[JihadJane]

....

 

[bigjelmapro]

By what law is the exclusion zone created?

Did you read the link or just skip it?

 

[Pardalis]

Do you have any interst in reasoned dialogue at all?

How's the Haïti invasion going?

 

[Thunder]

Israeli Internal Security Minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch said police were gathering evidence to prosecute activists who had set upon the marines with fists, batons, knives and gunfire.
"All those who lifted a hand against a soldier will be punished to the full extent of the law," he told Israel Radio.


Israel is going to prosecute activists who resisted an illegal boarding by Israeli soldiers in international waters????? That makes a whole lot of sense.

Keep on digging that ditch, Israel.

 

[WildCat]

It always astonishes me that people can accuse Israel of being the height of absolute evil, but not notice the ridiculous restraint it displays. If it were really that nasty, it could have simply sunk all the boats from the air, or mined the approach to Gaza and let them discover that for themselves. Instead it warned them in advance they would be boarded, then did so, risking the lives of its own soldiers. But then, if Israel were as evil as its enemies claim, there wouldn't be a Gaza or anyone in it to begin with.

And remember, this has nothing at all to do with anti-semitism.

After all, remember the outrage last week when the Taliban killed 75 members of a religious minority in Pakistan? The tens of thousands of people demonstrating all over the world to condemn the Taliban?

Remember all the threads here condemning Hamas when they started rounding up and torturing to death Fatah members for political reasons? E.J. Armstrong was so outraged he couldn't even start a thread about it! Poor JihadJane couldn't even fire up her computer she was so distraught... remember the large crowds of demonstrators in the streets of London, Paris, and Stockholm?

So you see, this is all about outrage over injustice and nothing else.

 

[WildCat]

98 people of the sect Ahmadi were killed over the weekend in Pakistan, 10 more later were attacked at the hospital where they were treated. 20 000 Sri Lankans were killed two years ago and I didn't see anyone on the streets to protest, only world government said it was "unfortunate loss of life". 500 Kurds murdered here, 35 thais murdered there, Iranian protesters emprisonned and tortured everyday...

I'm just saying there you guys have a very selective outrage.

And, of course, it's not anti-semitism at all! No no no... it's just that Israel is held to a higher standard you see.... it's just pure coincidence they're a Jewish state.