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OOS Collapse Propagation Model

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Ah, now I remember. I wrote a fair number of them.
And also the one which solved the interpretation misunderstanding. My viewpoint was based on incorrectly applying the virtual system definition literally, zero time impact, perfectly rigid body, but I learned from the mistake. Have no problem being proven wrong. S'fine. I don't ask questions if I'm not actually hoping for an answer.

This, femr2, is why I want to know specifically what your problems with the NIST report are.
Again, no problem, but here is not appropriate. I suppose I should start another thread. To summarise will take some time. Will post over at the911forum, like the ROOSD thread.

Your problems with the conservation of momentum calculation turned out to be based on your own misconceptions
Absolutely.

If your understanding of the NIST report is on the same level, then it's quite possible that you think you've spotted some glaring inconsistencies that are not in fact there.
Perhaps, perhaps a good reason to ask questions ? My personal issues with the report are relatively simple technically, but pretty fundamental imo.

It's your choice. If you want to learn something
Most questions are posed for a reason you know :)

Again, OOS...
 
Also, if you do not have any peer reviewed scientific evidence of a CD, then why in the locigal world do you ranting & raving loons continue to present this as the method of collpase?

The peer-review system has failed.

Hello,

I am requesting feedback on a paper about a model of the collapse progression of WTC1. The first draft is complete and is available for viewing.

. . .

Thanks.


As usual it ends in woo

lol
 
We already know... About a year ago he showed up here, all full of vim and vinegar, but soon revealed that he didn't even understand Conservation of Momentum, about the most fundamental physical law in the entire universe. Read the many, many replies it took to bring him around.


Wow. I just read that thread. My Goodness! At least he/she showed some progress in admitting a fundamental mistake... although she/he is still holding true to the CD hogwash. He/She truly has no understanding of physics.

I had a similar experience with him/her, whereby I first got his/her acknowledgement that he/she was a self proclaimed "physics exert'..

Not: It always bothered me why people without a fundamental understanding of physics felt they could bash the excellent work of the NIST team of esteemed professionals without even beginning to understand the report....

None the less, I proceeded to present many simple physics questions one by one..he incorrectly answered the first, then refused to admit his answer was incorrect, then backed in another answer, then, when called out on that, refused to answer any of the other questions.

He is a , repeat after me:

Char
la
tan
 
And also the one which solved the interpretation misunderstanding. My viewpoint was based on incorrectly applying the virtual system definition literally, zero time impact, perfectly rigid body, but I learned from the mistake. Have no problem being proven wrong. S'fine. I don't ask questions if I'm not actually hoping for an answer.


Again, no problem, but here is not appropriate. I suppose I should start another thread. To summarise will take some time. Will post over at the911forum, like the ROOSD thread.


Absolutely.


Perhaps, perhaps a good reason to ask questions ? My personal issues with the report are relatively simple technically, but pretty fundamental imo.


Most questions are posed for a reason you know :)

Again, OOS...

You're trying to figure out if a line is straight and you haven't even got a straightedge.
 
I proceeded to present many simple physics questions one by one..he incorrectly answered the first, then refused to admit his answer was incorrect

Really ? Am afraid am going to have to remind you of that discussion, again. Don't like spamming the thread with this nonsense, but it's clear that there's a *woohoo we've got some attack the person ammo* giving some folk the excuse to ingore the thread subject. What a surprise.

Here is the question, and your responses...

blgc028282 (1 day ago)

Femr, lets say a 5lb object is dangling from an elastic thread. Then, an additional stretching force F is applied & slowly increased. When F reaches value Fo the thread separates,
~ Now, what would be the minimal size of F that separates the thread, if F is applied instantaneously and remains unchanged.?
femr2 (1 day ago)

It's around 1/1.76 to 0.5 * Fo
blgc028282 (1 day ago)

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZ

Wrong answer fake Physics fraud

he thread will break if F=Fo/2.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


FRAUD
femr2 (1 day ago)

Is there some reason you think that 0.5 * Fo is different to Fo/2 ?

You should also be aware that the amplification factor on instantaneous load is not a div 2 constant, it is, as I said, between 1/1.76 * Fo and 0.5 * Fo.
blgc028282 (1 day ago)

Keep trying to dig your way out fraud........
femr2 (1 day ago)

A sudden load occurs if there is essentially no space between an object and a structure below and the load is being supported by something else and then is suddenly applied onto the object under it. The space between the two objects is so small that no velocity could have been developed by the released object. It is quasi-dynamic and has to do with how the stress wave propagates and can apply up to two times the static load stress.
blgc028282 (1 day ago)

You failed again..yoiu are a uneducated fraud....the work is right in front of your face..

Peddle your uneducated, dirt stupid delusional tripe somehwere else kid.

You have no clue or understanding of physics...and it shows.

Go back and get a GED at least...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

You FAILED AN 8TH GRADE PHYSICS QUESTION!
blgc028282 (1 day ago)

The Correct answer: The thread will break if F=Fo/2.
The Femr answer: It's around 1/1.76 to 0.5 * Fo
How much further from the mark can you be? Why did you fail so brilliantly?
etc. Pages and pages of it.

Now, I freely admit my error with the CoM calc, and have no problem with folk *riding* me for it, but it was all sorted after it was made clear that the virtual system definition is physically unreasonable if applied literally. The paradox of using perfectly rigid bodies.

Carlly, suggest you also reassess your previous dialogue. I certainly do not profess to be an expert in instantaneous load mechanics, and may even need to check the 1.76 value, but it should be clear that your ranting was rather, er, unwarranted shall we say ? *0.5 == /2. You asked for the minimum, which was in the range. Not sure in what scenario that minimum actually is *reasonable* though. Similar paradox as for perfectly rigid bodies ?

R.Mackey said:
Biggest lie I've seen a Truther utter in a long while.
Bigger than no-planes, DEW and floor by floor explosives ? Impressive.

Now, may I suggest that either you folk get back on topic, or this recent spam is split out to it's own thread. Nearly a full page utterly off-topic. I do not wish to spam MTs thread further.
 
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All these physics experts and not one of them willing to answer Major Tom's criticisms of Bazant's papers.
 
I want to know specifically what your problems with the NIST report are.

And I have repeatedly told you that's fine, that this thread is not the place for that dialogue, and where I will place that information.

Please stay on topic.
 
Really ? Am afraid am going to have to remind you of that discussion, again. Don't like spamming the thread with this nonsense, but it's clear that there's a *woohoo we've got some attack the person ammo* giving some folk the excuse to ingore the thread subject. What a surprise.

Here is the question, and your responses...









etc. Pages and pages of it.

Now, I freely admit my error with the CoM calc, and have no problem with folk *riding* me for it, but it was all sorted after it was made clear that the virtual system definition is physically unreasonable if applied literally. The paradox of using perfectly rigid bodies.

Carlly, suggest you also reassess your previous dialogue. I certainly do not profess to be an expert in instantaneous load mechanics, and may even need to check the 1.76 value, but it should be clear that your ranting was rather, er, unwarranted shall we say ? *0.5 == /2. You asked for the minimum, which was in the range. Not sure in what scenario that minimum actually is *reasonable* though. Similar paradox as for perfectly rigid bodies ?


Bigger than no-planes, DEW and floor by floor explosives ? Impressive.

Now, may I suggest that either you folk get back on topic, or this recent spam is split out to it's own thread. Nearly a full page utterly off-topic. I do not wish to spam MTs thread further.

Now it makes sense..an "Ah -Ha" moment. I can tell that is a youtube or video hosting conversation.

Somehow This clown thinks I am someone named "BigC", or is making up the parts of/the entire dialog with "BigC" - despite a simple google search showing that I always use the screen name Carll68.

Lost Forum
East Side Boxing Forum
JREF
Hearing blogs
on and on and on

Note to Loon: I am not "BigC"

If you are to create dialog, or invent fictitious enemies, and then pin those delusions on an actual person...would it not be wise to either:

A) Make certain the dialog you create is between the same person you are arguing with?
B) At least make the screen name the same?

I have not been on YouTube for at least a year - let alone "1 day ago" as the posts suggest - and when I did it was on Loose Change and the Purdue Simulation, over a year ago, and always under carll68.

Therefor, when I engaged you it the physics question(s)...it was under my screen-name 'carll68'..which,again, I deleted a year ago, after I joined JREF. I may go back to the videos and uncover these conversations and present them here, or I may not...

Bottom line is you are a fraud....

It even appears to my limited knowledge that The answer is indeed that the thread will break if F=Fo/2, not before. So..YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN! (NO SHOCK)


What I researched it shows the following:

Prior to the force being applied the 5lb weight of the object dangling on the thread is balanced by the tension force of the thread. Once the additional force F is applied downwards the TOTAL force becomes F, and the weight starts executing harmonic oscillation under the influence of the forces. It starts the oscillation at the top point of the period. After a quarter of the period it reaches the midpoint of the oscillation at which the total force vanishes. After half of the period it reaches the bottom point of the oscillation, at which, by symmetry, the total force is F UPWARDS. This total force is result of the applied external force F pointing downwards, and the increase in the thread tension, which must be 2F and point upwards. Thus, the maximal thread tension is TWICE larger than the applied force. Consequently, F=Fo/2 suffices to break the thread.



I asked you questions from a physics high school book and you failed MISERABLY. You failed this question. You failed to understand C.O.M. For goodness sake you invented a conversation that shows you failed!!!

Is anything left to be said about this delusional Charlatan?
 
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Note to Loon: I am not "BigC"
ROFL. Right. I believe you :rolleyes:

I have not been on YouTube for at least a year - let alone "1 day ago" as the posts suggest
The discussion ocurred 2009/07/03, after which you abandoned the sock. I posted from the original discussion.

I may go back to the videos and uncover these conversations and present them here
By all means, if fact absolutely do so, but not on this thread. Start a new one. Know you won't BigC.

Again, please stay on topic, or if one of the mods would split this chaff from MTs thread it would be appreciated.
 
ROFL. Right. I believe you :rolleyes:


The discussion ocurred 2009/07/03, after which you abandoned the sock. I posted from the original discussion.


By all means, if fact absolutely do so, but not on this thread. Start a new one. Know you won't BigC.

Again, please stay on topic, or if one of the mods would split this chaff from MTs thread it would be appreciated.


You are commencing a world class derail, but, I will play.


Please present the evidence that I am, or ever was, someone with the handle "BigC".

Explain why you incorrectly answered his/her question.

Thanks in advance
 
Please present the evidence that I am, or ever was, someone with the handle "BigC".

Mods: Please move the off-topic spam in this thread to a new one.

Carll68 said:
I have not been on YouTube for at least a year - let alone "1 day ago" as the posts suggest - and when I did it was on Loose Change and the Purdue Simulation, over a year ago, and always under carll68.
Copy of latest comments taken today from blgc028282, aka Carll68...
http://femr2.ucoz.com/_ph/3/63601684.png

Please do not hotlink unless you have permission to do so, and also be aware that the "no swearing (rule 10) also refers to any images included even if they are legally hotlinked.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

http://www.youtube.com/user/blgc028282

Please stop this off-topic rambling.
 
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Mods: Please move the off-topic spam in this thread to a new one.


Copy of latest comments taken today from blgc028282, aka Carll68...
http://femr2.ucoz.com/_ph/3/63601684.png

Please do not hotlink unless you have permission to do so, and also be aware that the "no swearing (rule 10) also refers to any images included even if they are legally hotlinked.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

http://www.youtube.com/user/blgc028282

Please stop this off-topic rambling.


Ahhh, I see. Stunning really.

So you have no proof that I am or ever was someone with the screen-name "BigC". Shocking that you would jump to conclusions without proof.

Are you really Jammonious? I mean you both are showing evidence that proves you wrong and trying to say it proves you right.

Kid, at the end of the day...you got the answer to the question wrong...as proven by your very own posted conversation between you and "Bigc" 1 day ago.

Classic self debunking. Also, you hot linked a conversation that occurred 11 months ago genius, and said 'taken today'......

Nah, that never happens to twoofers.
 
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Somehow This clown thinks I am someone named "BigC", or is making up the parts of/the entire dialog with "BigC" - despite a simple google search showing that I always use the screen name Carll68.

[...]

If you are to create dialog, or invent fictitious enemies, and then pin those delusions on an actual person...would it not be wise to either:

A) Make certain the dialog you create is between the same person you are arguing with?
B) At least make the screen name the same?

This is also consistent behavior for femr2. When I first heard of the guy, he invented at least one e-mail personality in an attempt to cajole me into "debating" him at his own Forum rather than here, while claiming that he'd never contacted me in the first place. Episode starts here, his "friend" appears here, and it goes downhill from there. His "friend" was never heard from again after he broke cover. This followed a similar baffling exchange on e-mail that isn't worth reproducing.

I guess it could be multiple personality disorder. Whatever the case, it's a pity none of the participants understand elementary physics.
 
This is also consistent behavior for femr2. When I first heard of the guy, he invented at least one e-mail personality in an attempt to cajole me into "debating" him at his own Forum rather than here, while claiming that he'd never contacted me in the first place.
The level of paranoia is astounding. Yes, that discussion was indeed initiated by another user, no matter what you believe.

I also note that the 1D crush-down model was described in your words...
Nonetheless, it looks like you've done a good job on it, nothing a little documentation can't fix. You are one of the very few who has done so, and thus far yours is clearly the best entry in response to my "Hardfire Modeling Challenge." With a little more work we should be able to use this model to make some pretty good predictions and learn something, and that is the hallmark of a good model.
...which later turned into...
-- absolutely no one took me up on my Hardfire Modeling Challenge
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147480

I guess it could be multiple personality disorder. Whatever the case, it's a pity none of the participants understand elementary physics.

Are you saying that the instantaneous load amplification factor is always 2 ?

Wish the mods would split this out of MTs thread. Have no problem with you folks attacking me, but it's all utterly irrelevant to the thread subject.
 
This is also consistent behavior for femr2. When I first heard of the guy, he invented at least one e-mail personality in an attempt to cajole me into "debating" him at his own Forum rather than here, while claiming that he'd never contacted me in the first place. Episode starts here, his "friend" appears here, and it goes downhill from there. His "friend" was never heard from again after he broke cover. This followed a similar baffling exchange on e-mail that isn't worth reproducing.

I guess it could be multiple personality disorder. Whatever the case, it's a pity none of the participants understand elementary physics.

Ryan..that is simply CLASSIC. His "Friend" references femrs failed "crush the concrete' model..then advises that everyone "debate on femrs site'...then is gone..

Nah..it 'taint the same person...everyone always links to femrs obscure irrelevant incorrect model, advises that people open the spreadsheet to see the calculation, and then suggest debating on his site...

Please....

The irony is...even in the created YouTube argument ..whether BigC is real or simply the charlatan femr in disguise (looks like his only activity was arguing with femr almost 1 year ago)....regardless...femr

drum-roll

STILL ANSWERED THE QUESTION WRONG (a
s far as I can tell)

Some "physics expert", huh? Nah, don't trust Bazant , Sunder and others..trust some dude on YouTube with a funky screen name like 'femr2' who can not answer simple physics questions.

I know for a fact he answered my first question wrong, said it wasn't wrong, said he never answered the way he answered, then tried to back in another answer that was still wrong..then simply avoided the remaining questions.....
 
The irony is...even in the created YouTube argument ..whether BigC is real or simply the charlatan femr in disguise
ROFL. I know it was you. You know it was you. Everyone else can believe whatever they choose to. The conversation will still be there if anyone is bothered enough to track back through a year of comments on the YT video and correlate to your recent comments here, and I have a full copy anyway. Quite satisfying to note you mentioning WTC 7, which is utterly integral to that conversation, 8th Grade Physics, loon, all sorts of stuff. Fantastic.

STILL ANSWERED THE QUESTION WRONG
Nope. Still having problems with *0.5 == /2 I see. Hmm.

(as far as I can tell)
The seed of doubt eh. At least you are (sort of) progressing.

Mods: Please split out the off-topic posts into another thread.

Now, please address the ROOSD study or MTs questions, or refrain from further posting.
 
So nobody seems to have tried to answer the questions posed on this thread. Instead, femr is attacked for something that happened on another thread.

The study in the OP was attacked because I included comments on the papers BV and BL=BVReply. The statements in the paper are correct, but few people seem to understand the contents of each Bazant paper.

We need to clear up all the bad information concerning what the Bazant papers prove and what they do not prove. To clear things up I will offer a short review of each paper beginning with Bazant and Zhou.

My Review of Bazant and Zhou (first draft) is here:
http://www.the911forum.freeforums.org/review-of-bazant-and-zhou-t375.html

Please focus only on whether individual comments contain true or false information, now on how you personally feel about them.

Please point out where you believe I typed a false statement and be prepared to prove your counter claim.
 
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Dave Rogers wrote: "I was commenting on femr2's assertions rather than Major Tom's, so MT's statements aren't exactly relevant. But in any case, the tactic of "I refuse to present the second stage in my argument until everyone accepts the first" is a classic set-up for a gotcha. Several people here, I think, understand MT's first paper, whether or not they agree with it as a complete and accurate description of the propagation mechanism."

I posted the study in the OP and many people attacked it and me on the basis of misreading Bazant's papers. Nobody has corrected these posts, so the misrepresentations of the Bazant papers stand. If we do not clear away all the BS we will never be able to address the real issues concerning the possibility of CD.

There is so much useless crap in the "debate" that most people probably do not know what the central questions and issues are.

After we rid ourselves of all the deceptive crap, we will know where to look within the videos for suspicious activity.

If people cannot see that Dr Bazant does not actually prove no CD occurred, then the OOS study is not yet understood.


How can we look for evidence unless we know where to look? How can you talk of sizing devices if you know nothing about the most probable targets?
 
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