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Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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Mary_H said:
That is not quite true. One witness for the defense is Raffaele's friend who came to his door and talked to Amanda at around 8:30.

If Amanda and Raffaele had been out and about in that rather busy city that night, it is likely more people would have seen them and come forward about it. No one did because Amanda and Raffaele spent the whole night at Raffaele's.
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Originally, Amanda had to work that evening and RS had to go pick up that parcel for his friend at midnight, so they had no plans for that evening. Then @ 8:20, Amanda doesn't have to go to work and then @ 8:40, RS is off the hook and the rest of the night is theirs to do whatever. Both these were unexpected, so wouldn't it be normal to plan something? Just asking, cause I would.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
Originally, Amanda had to work that evening and RS had to go pick up that parcel for his friend at midnight, so they had no plans for that evening. Then @ 8:20, Amanda doesn't have to go to work and then @ 8:40, RS is off the hook and the rest of the night is theirs to do whatever. Both these were unexpected, so wouldn't it be normal to plan something? Just asking, cause I would.
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Well, yeah, but it wouldn't be a previously unplanned sex murder.
 
Mary_H said:
That is not quite true. One witness for the defense is Raffaele's friend who came to his door and talked to Amanda at around 8:30.

If Amanda and Raffaele had been out and about in that rather busy city that night, it is likely more people would have seen them and come forward about it. No one did because Amanda and Raffaele spent the whole night at Raffaele's.
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Jovana Popovic. Are you certain that she was a defence witness and not a prosecution witness? Didn't she help refute their alibi because the time of death was much later than her visit?
 
Mary_H said:
Well, yeah, but it wouldn't be a previously unplanned sex murder.
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It also wouldn't include an unplanned encounter with RG or even knowing that Meredith would have been home alone at the cottage. After they turned off their phones they just wanted to have some fun:

Dear father. What can I say about Amanda? During that time we were together she was elusive, I thought she was out of this world. She lived her life like a dream, she was detached from reality ... Her life seemed to be pure pleasure.
 
stilicho said:
Jovana Popovic. Are you certain that she was a defence witness and not a prosecution witness? Didn't she help refute their alibi because the time of death was much later than her visit?
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No, I am not certain. You could be right.
 
Mary_H said:
I am not suggesting we limit our observations to RWVBWL and Mignini; those were just two names that came quickly to mind. The point is, in the records of this case, there is a lot of evidence of the differences between most of the people on the pro-innocence side versus most of the people on the pro-guilt side. If a person were not aware of all the evidence, or wanted to ignore it, he or she could choose a side based on the types of people who populate either side.
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Really? :confused:

What type of person am I?
 
Someone will know:

Regardless of what she thought the other's plans might have been, is there any way Amanda Knox could have been certain that one of her other roommates, or their friends, would not have, unexpectedly, showed up at the cottage on the morning after the victim was murdered?
 
lane99 said:
Someone will know:

Regardless of what she thought the other's plans might have been, is there any way Amanda Knox could have been certain that one of her other roommates, or their friends, would not have, unexpectedly, showed up at the cottage on the morning after the victim was murdered?
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That's why the door to Meredith's bedroom was locked, why Amanda took a shower, etc. - in other words, Amanda went back to the cottage to do whatever it was she did, but took a shower so she'd have a reason to have been at the cottage that morning should anyone show up.
 
Mary_H said:
It's interesting you would mention that, Bob. I was wondering what everyone was going to do with LondonJohn's suggestion that we examine the ad hominem fallacies that abound in these discussion.




The problem is that these discussions, I think, all must ultimately end in ad hominem arguments, fallacy or not. The facts are there in black and white, yet people refuse to accept them, regardless of how effective the arguments for or against may be. That's when people start asking, hmm, do I want to go with RWVBWL, his real life experience and his kind heart, or do I want to go with Giuliani Mignini, his fat, smug face and his convictions for previous abuses of power?
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Mary, you're the one resorting to Ad Hom attacks. I was merely pointing this out to you.

As it goes, I don't know what kind of heart RWVBWL has. I don't know that Mignini has a "fat, smug face". Additionally, I don't give a rat's ass because it has nothing to do with the evidence presented in the case.
 
lane99 said:
Someone will know:

Regardless of what she thought the other's plans might have been, is there any way Amanda Knox could have been certain that one of her other roommates, or their friends, would not have, unexpectedly, showed up at the cottage on the morning after the victim was murdered?
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Speculation.

But there's no reason to believe any of the following:

  1. The murder weapon was transported from Raffaele's place to the cottage on the night of the murder.
  2. Amanda knew that Meredith would be home alone on 01 NOV 2007.
  3. RS and AK turned off their phones because they didn't want to be located on their way to the cottage.
  4. Amanda knew none of those in the house would return before they'd completed their staging and cleanup.
  5. RS and AK met up deliberately with RG to commit their crimes.
Nothing about the crimescene suggests that they had any kind of plan before or during their assault and murder of Meredith Kercher. They had a kernel of a plan after they killed her but it didn't include RG and contained many risks they hadn't even considered. Hence the Quintavalle testimony, the unexpected early arrival of the Postal Police, the bathmat hopping explanation for blood in the bathroom, and the confusion they experienced when Filomena didn't get there when they asked her to.

Almost nothing they did worked according to plan and that plan only unfolded in the wee hours of 02 NOV 2007.
 
Fulcanelli said:
In response, I quote The Bard from PMF:

I think it's funny that you quoted The Bard.

Fulcanelli, you could walk off a cliff and The Bard would follow you. She really needs to find her own voice and stop trying so hard to please you. Why quote someone that cannot come up with a single independent thought?
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BobTheDonkey said:
Mary, you're the one resorting to Ad Hom attacks. I was merely pointing this out to you.
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I know.

As it goes, I don't know what kind of heart RWVBWL has. I don't know that Mignini has a "fat, smug face". Additionally, I don't give a rat's ass because it has nothing to do with the evidence presented in the case.
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You think you don't give a rat's ass about anything apart from the evidence, but I don't think you're being completely honest with yourself about that. Everyone eventually -- well, actually, it takes no time at all -- gets to the point where arguing the evidence is not effective. That's where the personal attitudes and feelings come into play, and you guys call us stupid and Kevin_Lowe calls you guys cuckoo.
 
stilicho said:
Speculation.

But there's no reason to believe any of the following:


The murder weapon was transported from Raffaele's place to the cottage on the night of the murder.

Bruce: I am honestly not sure what you mean by this list. I agree there is no reason to believe that the knife was transported to the cottage on the night of the murder. In fact I believe that the knife was in Raffaele's drawer at the time of the murder.

Amanda knew that Meredith would be home alone on 01 NOV 2007.

Bruce: This point isn't relevant. Amanda spent the night with Raffaele.

RS and AK turned off their phones because they didn't want to be located on their way to the cottage.

Bruce: Once again, I agree. There is no evidence to prove that the phones were turned off for the reason stated above.

Amanda knew none of those in the house would return before they'd completed their staging and cleanup.

Bruce: this point isn't relevant because there is absolutely no proof of any cleanup or staging, Just opinion.

RS and AK met up deliberately with RG to commit their crimes.

Bruce: Once again, I agree. There was no proof that the 3 met up on the night of the murder.

Nothing about the crimescene suggests that they had any kind of plan before or during their assault and murder of Meredith Kercher.

Bruce: That's because "they" weren't there.

They had a kernel of a plan after they killed her but it didn't include RG and contained many risks they hadn't even considered.

Bruce: They did not devise any plan after the murder because "they" weren't there.

Hence the Quintavalle testimony, the unexpected early arrival of the Postal Police, the bathmat hopping explanation for blood in the bathroom, and the confusion they experienced when Filomena didn't get there when they asked her to.

Almost nothing they did worked according to plan and that plan only unfolded in the wee hours of 02 NOV 2007.
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Your entire theory is destroyed by the evidence that shows the postal police arriving after Raffaele called the police. Amanda and Raffaele were not surprised at all by the postal police.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/garage.html

One more thing, If Amanda was at the store as Quintavalle says, why didn't she buy anything?
 
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Stilicho,

The fact that you still believe that Amanda and Raffaele were surprised by the postal police along with the fact that you feel that the clasp was handled properly, leads me to question whether or not you are really in search for the truth.
 
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