Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Sherlock Holmes]

We're mainly passing time until the talented PMF translating and proofreading teams are finished with the Massei report.

True - now both you and Mary have made me laugh at some point during this.

 

[katy_did]

One would think that the cops were interested in the blood-stained bathmat from the very beginning of the investigation, and certainly any "interactions" the witnesses---such as Amanda---may have had with the bathmat.

And, so, you would expect the cops to be asking plenty of questions during her frequent visits to the police station, such as: "Ms. Knox, did you ever touch, or move, the bathmat after its discovery?" Well, sure---judging from her email of November 4---you can bet she said that she stepped on it after her shower, and dried her feet. But I gotta wonder whether at that time, prior to detection of the Luminol prints much later, Ms. Knox made any mention of her bathmat boogie. I wonder if some of the cops who interrogated Amanda about this were rolling their eyes in listening to Amanda's bathmat boogie testimony a year later.

Or maybe she forgot to tell them?

But why would it have benefited her to make it up? She said she dried her feet on the bathmat as early as her Nov 4 e-mail. So the prints could have been made that way just as easily as if she'd used the bathmat to hop back to her room.

 

[Belz...]

We're mainly passing time until the talented PMF translating and proofreading teams are finished with the Massei report.

I'd still like to know who's arguing what.

 

[Fulcanelli]

But why would it have benefited her to make it up? She said she dried her feet on the bathmat as early as her Nov 4 e-mail. So the prints could have been made that way just as easily as if she'd used the bathmat to hop back to her room.

No. If she'd simply dried her feet on the mat and then walked back, we would see a trail.

But in any case, if she dried her feet on the mat and then boogied back on it, we'd expect to see both left and right feet, but we only see right feet...and that right foot covered from heel to toe in blood. Also, if she had boogied back as she said, she'd have erased Rudy's bloody footprints in the corridor passing in front of the doorway to her room, yet his footprints are clearly present here. These three things alone rule out the 'bath mat boogie'.

(That and for the life of me, I can't imagine how she managed to bath mat boogie past the drying rack which blocked most of the width of the corridor, or over the lamp cord and plug extending out across the corridor floor from under Meredith's door )

 

[Fine]

But why would it have benefited her to make it up? She said she dried her feet on the bathmat as early as her Nov 4 e-mail. So the prints could have been made that way just as easily as if she'd used the bathmat to hop back to her room.

If she'd walked back to her room she would have left a proper trail of tracks.

///

 

[katy_did]

It is not entrenched belief. It has been established in court. And as I have said, none of the experts involved in the trial thought that the print assigned to Raffaele belonged to Amanda. Therefore, why do I need to question all that, simply because you have suddenly decided that it is more convenient to your assertions to label that print as being Amanda's? Not to mention the fact, you failed to point out how it was when having her shower Amanda happened to step in a puddle of blood in order to make the print on the bath mat (the print which is identical to the luminol print in the corridor assigned to Raffaele), or where the prints leading up to the print on the mat are...I don't recall Amanda claiming she cleaned up any bloody footprints that morning when she got out of her shower, do you?

Good to know critical thinking is alive and well on JREF, eh? It was 'established in court' so no need to question it.

By the way, is this the "identical" footprint you're talking about?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

But why would it have benefited her to make it up? She said she dried her feet on the bathmat as early as her Nov 4 e-mail. So the prints could have been made that way just as easily as if she'd used the bathmat to hop back to her room.

Exactly. This statement doesn't help her in terms of explaining away evidence, but it doesn't really incriminate her either. It just seems strange.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

No matter, because the crime scene is not limited to Meredith's bedroom. Neither is it limited to physical evidence, but also ear/eye witnesses. Moreover, the staged break-in and the the behaviour/contradictory actions of the pair the next morning are damning.

As for the mat/luminol footprint we can completely exclude Rudy since it is totally the wrong size...Rudy's the ugly sister for that particular glass slipper.

No, Rudy is not the wrong size. His foot is no bigger than Raffaele's except in the heel. That has been established through careful measurements. And the toe on the mat does not match Raffaele's toe, whereas it does match Rudy's.

The size difference (which applies equally to Rudy or Raffaele's reference prints) probably derives from the amount of weight placed on the step, because the bones of the foot spread as more weight is applied.

 

[katy_did]

No. If she'd simply dried her feet on the mat and then walked back, we would see a trail.

But in any case, if she dried her feet on the mat and then boogied back on it, we'd expect to see both left and right feet, but we only see right feet...and that right foot covered from heel to toe in blood. Also, if she had boogied back as she said, she'd have erased Rudy's bloody footprints in the corridor passing in front of the doorway to her room, yet his footprints are clearly present here. These three things alone rule out the 'bath mat boogie'.

You just said the footprints were discontinuous because they cleaned the area outside the bathroom. Why weren't Rudy traces erased, then? Or the print outside Meredith's room? There's also no continuous trail leading into Amanda's room, either, in an area they had no need to clean. And surely, whether it was Amanda's right or left foot would depend where she stood on the bathmat, no?

How did Raffaele get from the middle of the corridor to...wherever he was going, btw? Did he take a flying hop into the middle of Amanda's bed or something?

(That and for the life of me, I can't imagine how she managed to bath mat boogie past the drying rack which blocked most of the width of the corridor, or over the lamp cord and plug extending out across the corridor floor from under Meredith's door )

Oh cool, the lamp. So tell me Fulcanelli, why is it that of the eight people present in the cottage that morning, standing outside the door debating whether or not to break it down, not one of them noticed the lamp cord and plug which were supposedly trailing out into the corridor?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Good to know critical thinking is alive and well on JREF, eh? It was 'established in court' so no need to question it.

By the way, is this the "identical" footprint you're talking about?

You might have a point if by 'court' you were only referring to the belief of the judges and prosecution. However, in this case the defence teams are also in full agreement...not one single expert could connect the Raffaele bath mar/luminol prints to Amanda. If even the defence teams are agreed that they are not Amanda's, why should I argue? It's not as though this is a contested point.

As for the photos, I don't know, maybe...I haven't gone over the footprint stuff for quite a while. Have a look at Kermit's PowerPoints on PMF regarding the footprints (there's three I think)...you'll see Raffaele's print clearly labelled and enhanced in one or two of those (with measurements). I'd also recommend a look in the 'Crime Scene' album in the PMF gallery...there's all sorts in there.

 

[katy_did]

No, Rudy is not the wrong size. His foot is no bigger than Raffaele's except in the heel. That has been established through careful measurements. And the toe on the mat does not match Raffaele's toe, whereas it does match Rudy's.

The size difference (which applies equally to Rudy or Raffaele's reference prints) probably derives from the amount of weight placed on the step, because the bones of the foot spread as more weight is applied.

I was quite surprised at how small Rudy's foot is, actually - only 247mm, compared to 244mm for Raffaele (length-wise). Just a 3mm difference. The idea Rudy's foot is a lot bigger than Raffaele's is a myth.

 

[katy_did]

You might have a point if by 'court' you were only referring to the belief of the judges and prosecution. However, in this case the defence teams are also in full agreement...not one single expert could connect the Raffaele bath mar/luminol prints to Amanda. If even the defence teams are agreed that they are not Amanda's, why should I argue? It's not as though this is a contested point.

As for the photos, I don't know, maybe...I haven't gone over the footprint stuff for quite a while. Have a look at Kermit's PowerPoints on PMF regarding the footprints (there's three I think)...you'll see Raffaele's print clearly labelled and enhanced in one or two of those (with measurements). I'd also recommend a look in the 'Crime Scene' album in the PMF gallery...there's all sorts in there.

Are you saying the defence teams argued that the footprint was Raffaele's? I very much doubt that. I would guess they argued it was inconclusive (which it is, but nonetheless the prints are all very similar, suggesting they were made by the same person). I don't think your point stands unless you're saying the defence argued the luminol print was Raffaele's.

The picture I posted is the one Rinaldi claims was Raffaele's, so presumably that's the one you believe to be 'identical'. I think Kermit suggests it may be Meredith's.

 

[Fulcanelli]

You just said the footprints were discontinuous because they cleaned the area outside the bathroom. Why weren't Rudy traces erased, then? Or the print outside Meredith's room? There's also no continuous trail leading into Amanda's room, either, in an area they had no need to clean. And surely, whether it was Amanda's right or left foot would depend where she stood on the bathmat, no?

How did Raffaele get from the middle of the corridor to...wherever he was going, btw? Did he take a flying hop into the middle of Amanda's bed or something?


Oh cool, the lamp. So tell me Fulcanelli, why is it that of the eight people present in the cottage that morning, standing outside the door debating whether or not to break it down, not one of them noticed the lamp cord and plug which were supposedly trailing out into the corridor?

Well, there were no Rudy traces just outside the bathroom. But like I've said many times, they weren't interested in cleaning Rudy's prints, they concentrated on cleaning their own. Who said the didn't need to clean in front of Amanda's room...you don't know unless you are able to see what was originally there. We're not just talking about their footprints they wanted to clean, but also some of the larger drops of blood, which would have been all over the place.

I don't think the 8 people were concerned with the floor that afternoon Katy.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Are you saying the defence teams argued that the footprint was Raffaele's? I very much doubt that. I would guess they argued it was inconclusive (which it is, but nonetheless the prints are all very similar, suggesting they were made by the same person). I don't think your point stands unless you're saying the defence argued the luminol print was Raffaele's.

The picture I posted is the one Rinaldi claims was Raffaele's, so presumably that's the one you believe to be 'identical'. I think Kermit suggests it may be Meredith's.

No. But they certainly didn't argue it was Raffaele's.

No, for 'your' point to stand you need them to have argued it was Amanda's.

If Rinaldi said so, then why were you asking me?

Kermit certainly does NOT suggest it was Meredith's!

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I was quite surprised at how small Rudy's foot is, actually - only 247mm, compared to 244mm for Raffaele (length-wise). Just a 3mm difference. The idea Rudy's foot is a lot bigger than Raffaele's is a myth.

My analysis of the reference prints gave a length of 251mm for Rudy's reference print vs. 236 for Raffaele's - but, the measurement I took for Rudy's foot involved drawing a straight line from his second toe (the longest one) perpendicular to the axis of his foot and measuring the distance from the tip of his heel to that line. Raffaele's second toe didn't touch the paper on the reference print, so I drew a line off the tip of his big toe.

Overall, Rudy has a longer and slightly narrower foot, but the length difference is in the heel.

 

[43degreesNorth]

I was quite surprised at how small Rudy's foot is, actually - only 247mm, compared to 244mm for Raffaele (length-wise). Just a 3mm difference. The idea Rudy's foot is a lot bigger than Raffaele's is a myth.

As far as shoes/feet go, that is a big difference. Size 42 to 46

 

[Fulcanelli]

I was quite surprised at how small Rudy's foot is, actually - only 247mm, compared to 244mm for Raffaele (length-wise). Just a 3mm difference. The idea Rudy's foot is a lot bigger than Raffaele's is a myth.

It's hardly a myth. Rudy's shoe size was several sizes larger then Raffaele's.

And make your mind up...first of all you were arguing the prints to be Amanda's, now you're implying they were Rudy's.

 

[katy_did]

Well, there were no Rudy traces just outside the bathroom. But like I've said many times, they weren't interested in cleaning Rudy's prints, they concentrated on cleaning their own. Who said the didn't need to clean in front of Amanda's room...you don't know unless you are able to see what was originally there. We're not just talking about their footprints they wanted to clean, but also some of the larger drops of blood, which would have been all over the place.

Except all this is pure speculation, isn't it? Since you have no evidence of a clean-up, and the prosecution didn't provide any.

I don't think the 8 people were concerned with the floor that afternoon Katy.

But they would have noticed the plug and cable, surely? Wondered what it was connected to, worried they might damage it by breaking down the door (since at that stage, they didn't know about the murder). It would have been a topic of conversation. Unless it wasn't there, that is.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Well, there were no Rudy traces just outside the bathroom.

One of his bloody shoe prints was right between the bathroom door and Meredith's door.

 

[Fulcanelli]

No, Rudy is not the wrong size. His foot is no bigger than Raffaele's except in the heel. That has been established through careful measurements. And the toe on the mat does not match Raffaele's toe, whereas it does match Rudy's.

The size difference (which applies equally to Rudy or Raffaele's reference prints) probably derives from the amount of weight placed on the step, because the bones of the foot spread as more weight is applied.

Which makes it the wrong size. And while the bath mat print is missing the heel, the achilles heel in your claim is that the luminol twin of the bath mat print has its heel intact...and it's too small to be Rudy's.