Being bullied

[HistoryGal]

I have to thank my mother for helping me avoid a lot of bullying problems when I was a kid.

I was short, tubby, unable to grow really long, straight hair (we're talking early 1970s here), and slightly smarter than the average bear. I was teased a LOT.

One summer day, I was walking home from the local municipal pool, and two bigger kids waylaid me, beating the crap out of me. For no reason. I had no money to steal, or items to take. I was just there, and I guess that was reason enough. When I finally limped home - almost a mile away, I couldn't pretend that nothing had happened.

My mother, who now, at 73, looks like a little old lady, was quite the Amazon in her day - tall, strong, yet sweet and non-assuming. When she saw me, bruised and shaken, she decided to teach me how to deal with bullies.

Her philosophy is that bullies are essentially cowards, and if you fight back, they will leave you alone. Her other philosophy is that since I was girl, fighting fair is not fair. She taught me how to fight and fight dirty - borne from her own experiences as a young girl who had spent a year in the hospital with cerebral meningitis, which had left her partially deaf, and who was also cross-eyed, blind in one eye and wore really thick glasses.

In my first year of junior high (7th grade), a few months after getting beaten up - I was getting my lunch money out of my locker, and two 9th grade boys reached around me to steal my money. I grabbed each arm with my hands, dug in my not-too-long, but still long-enough nails, and starting spinning. I spun around like a top and when I let go of each arm, the boy attached to it hit a pole and fell to the ground. These were two tall, big 15-year-olds, and I was a very short, chubby 12-year-old. The two boys ran to a teacher and told her I had beaten them up. She looked at them. She looked at me. She laughed for a really long time and told the boys to get lost. They never bothered me again. In fact, nobody bothered me again. Word had gotten around.

I learned that if you confront one bully, all the others will back off - permanently.

I hate bullies with a white hot passion. If I see someone getting bullied, I almost always step in. I can't seem to help myself.

 

[HistoryGal]

Yeah, and the way it mirrors school is just spine-chilling. It makes one

The difference between childhood and adulthood is that some of us grow up and some of us don't.

See my post on my childhood bully issues to see that had I seen what had happened to you, I would have intervened. Loudly.

I've written it down, noted the witnesses, and already had a talk with the office manager, THE BOSS in the office. There've been other incidents with her, though not with me. I didn't feel singled out by her, I just felt "next."

Well that's good then - you're not being singled out. And I'm sure the BOSS is compiling his/her own dossier on the troublemaker. You have to lay down that paper trail!

I already did, on Monday. I was much beloved.

Yay cookies!

 

[HistoryGal]

I could never bring cookies to a group of office workers that bullied me. Far too tempting to add phenolphthalein, caspsicum, stuff like that.....

Ah, but there's only one bully at that particular office. Think of the cookies as an incentive to the rest to ignore and belittle the bully.

 

[fuelair]

Thank you! But I am not quite parsing your next part:

Can you explain this?

You convinced yourself, rightly, to take the fight (explaining the situation in terms they could follow even with their insignificant brainpower) to them without remorse.

 

[ktesibios]

No stories. I'm sure most of the people here are aware of what happens to those of us who commit the horrible crime of reading several years beyond their "grade level", have the vocabulary to show for it and dare to use said vocabulary, especially if the little criminal is male.

However, when Nicholas Montserrat wrote the introduction to Heinz Schaeffer's book "U-boat 977" he had something to say about the submarine crews who had spent the war trying to kill him that mirrors my own attitude towards certain ambulatory pieces of meat by-product from my past:

"I feared and loathed them then and I loathe them still".

 

[fuelair]

I don't know. In some respects, two wrongs don't make a right. But as it is right now, I don't know to what extent she is aware how much damage she did, and not just to me (assuming she is alive).

If nothing else, letting her know will give her the chance to show remorse. She could even go to confession and be absolved from her sins. In that respect, I am doing her a favor, right?

And, she may be the kind of thing who will take pride in finding out how thoroughly she got to you. I won't offend by going for my suggestion, but I'm sure you can figure it out from other comments of mine here and other places.

But, three words I will allow myself: flensing knife, salt.
I promise she would feel remorse.

 

[fuelair]

I have to thank my mother for helping me avoid a lot of bullying problems when I was a kid.

I was short, tubby, unable to grow really long, straight hair (we're talking early 1970s here), and slightly smarter than the average bear. I was teased a LOT.

One summer day, I was walking home from the local municipal pool, and two bigger kids waylaid me, beating the crap out of me. For no reason. I had no money to steal, or items to take. I was just there, and I guess that was reason enough. When I finally limped home - almost a mile away, I couldn't pretend that nothing had happened.

My mother, who now, at 73, looks like a little old lady, was quite the Amazon in her day - tall, strong, yet sweet and non-assuming. When she saw me, bruised and shaken, she decided to teach me how to deal with bullies.

Her philosophy is that bullies are essentially cowards, and if you fight back, they will leave you alone. Her other philosophy is that since I was girl, fighting fair is not fair. She taught me how to fight and fight dirty - borne from her own experiences as a young girl who had spent a year in the hospital with cerebral meningitis, which had left her partially deaf, and who was also cross-eyed, blind in one eye and wore really thick glasses.

In my first year of junior high (7th grade), a few months after getting beaten up - I was getting my lunch money out of my locker, and two 9th grade boys reached around me to steal my money. I grabbed each arm with my hands, dug in my not-too-long, but still long-enough nails, and starting spinning. I spun around like a top and when I let go of each arm, the boy attached to it hit a pole and fell to the ground. These were two tall, big 15-year-olds, and I was a very short, chubby 12-year-old. The two boys ran to a teacher and told her I had beaten them up. She looked at them. She looked at me. She laughed for a really long time and told the boys to get lost. They never bothered me again. In fact, nobody bothered me again. Word had gotten around.

I learned that if you confront one bully, all the others will back off - permanently.

I hate bullies with a white hot passion. If I see someone getting bullied, I almost always step in. I can't seem to help myself.

Good for you - and your mom!!!

 

[Complexity]

I have been bullied by one manager. Utterly horrible two years. The stress brought on a serious reoccurrence of depression.

If you've ever seen the manager in Office Space, mine was many times worse and sadistic as hell. He plagued two of us for two years just because he could.

 

[fuelair]

In second grade, I could read at fourth grade level and we had a lot of books in our house. The terrorism came after school, when the others objected to me answering questions in class. Finally, when I was surrounded by the five of them, John Prout started in swinging his fists, so I stuck him the wrist with my number 2 pencil. The physical stuff pretty much stopped after that. And I stopped answering questions and did the class clown thing.
Still do.

In highschool, Prout came up to me one day and showed me his wrist, with the grey trace of the pencil "lead" in it. He sez, "See what you did?"
I sez, "You want another?"

Since, I haven't been bothered much by physical bullies. Knowing where their carotid arteries are has come in handy. Also, acting the crazy dude on NYC subways repels the vermin.

Verbal bullies don't bother me, they have no power over me. My wife, on the other hand, must ..., well nuff said.

I've mentioned this before - I have a small black tattoo at the upper edge /inside of my right elbow from a pencil in third grade. My opponent has a quarter inch scar in the top of his hand - my pencil went in about a quarter-third of an inch. And he was a friend!!
And carotid artery meet Bic pen (I love Bic pens and airplane security has no problem with them - the crystal ones, not the flexible side ones!!) or sharp pencil thrust quickly with palm driving it. A real life altering thing against an assault.

 

[fuelair]

I was never bullied by anyone who was the same age or even a little older than me. I mean not seriously. But I was small for my age and if I was picked on by older kids because of it I fought back. I didn't win a lot of these fights in the beginning but I got better at it as time went on. And this started before I was even old enough to go to school to tell you the truth. It was just normal business as usual where I grew up. (in fact it started in my house as well as the street but that's a whole different story.)

My philosophy was that even if they were going to win the fight I was going to draw some blood from them. This philosophy would wind up winning me a lot of these battles. You see if a bully can find someone else to pound on and not wind up with a bloody nose in the process, they will just go look for that someone else the next time. And believe it or not? If you do wind up turning the tables and handing out the beating to them sometimes they will think twice before starting up with some perceived easy tarket the next time. Think of it as a public service.

The thing about people not getting involved that should get involved when this kind of thing is going on is simple. Everyone has been bullied at one time or another. When most people see it happening to someone else they are just so happy it's not them being picked on this time. In fact they want to run so far away from being that victim they run to the furthest place they know. What's that place? Being the bully them self. That's how bullies are born. In fact that's how all liars and cheaters are born. They are afraid. They are cowards. They want to be the perpetrator of what really fears them in an attempt to not fall victim of it.

Now some of you here are still thinking about how you were bullied. What is it you think you are good at? What is your weapon should you need it? Have you ever preemptively attacked someone? Did it make you feel good? Are you human? Are you a saint? If you are not a saint does it give you regret or is it just self righteousness? "They deserved it"? What do you think your bully thought as it bullied you?

For instance. Do any of you think you are smarter than some people? Have you ever tried to bully them with your intellect? Or maybe with some authoritative (moderator) power right here in this place? You know? Just a passive aggressive attempt to get back at every ghost you have in your tortured memories?

Just my two cents. I hope you don't steal my milk money or exclude me from your little club here for those last couple of paragraphs.

It's all sincere. I mean I could go on and on with some horror stories of my own but I really don't think about them much anymore. And it wasn't just some kid picking on me on the playground either. Get over it. It wasn't right but it happens to most people and sometime a lot worse. You could be dead. I just think some of you are really funny considering some of your activities and posts right here in this place. Do you really not think it's the same thing?

I do not think many people respond to bullying by bullying. It's an interesting theory, but....

 

[Profanz]

I do not think many people respond to bullying by bullying. It's an interesting theory, but....

How do you think they become bullies? In other words what made them a coward?

 

[TraneWreck]

I do not think many people respond to bullying by bullying. It's an interesting theory, but....

I would be willing to bet a significant sum of money that a large percentage of bullies were themselves bullied--most likely by their parents or caretakers when they were very young.

 

[Profanz]

I would be willing to bet a significant sum of money that a large percentage of bullies were themselves bullied--most likely by their parents or caretakers when they were very young.

Bullies, liars, cheaters, cowards, sexual predators... most of all of them start out the same way. It happened to them. They were a victim of it. They are fighting back. This is how they justify it in their head.

 

[foxholeatheist]

I remember being picked on for being the new kid, being in a military family. Whatever, it's a normal part of growing up.

Punch them in the throat. What's the big deal?

 

[Rairun]

I think you guys are overlooking what peer pressure does to people. If you're only talking about your stereotypical bully who goes shoving kids down the hall, then sure, you might have a point. But in my experience, the worst of it doesn't come from that kind of person. It comes from people who think so little of it they might not even realize they're bullies. A girl who tries to flirt with you not because she's interested, but because she wants you (and everyone who's watching) to know she is being ironic, because someone as hot as her couldn't possibly be interested in someone like you--she doesn't do that because she was abused. She's insecure, okay, but most people are. And a guy who casually mocks you might be looking for approval, but that doesn't mean he was mocked himself.

I still think the worst sort of bulling doesn't come from that one guy who wants to beat you up. It becomes unbearable when you become fair game. When even the decent, well-adjusted kids disdain you, because that's what people are supposed to do. They don't beat you or even say anything outrageously bad. But when every single person does it, it adds up.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Am I the only one who went to a school where the popular kids were smart? The class president, prom queen, etc, were all in AP classes with me. In my high school at least, there wasn't a real bullying problem. I went to a 2,000 person public high school, but it wasn't very cliquish. You could be a football player who hung out with a gay math geek and you wouldn't lose your social status over it. But I would say the least popular kids were all pretty, frankly, stupid. The most popular kids were almost all AP students who were in things like the chemistry or Latin club.

Maybe I went to a different kind of school...

 

[SusanB-M1]

SimonD

The one problem I do have and it is one that still bothers me a bit, is that I sometimes over react when someone is making a joke at my expense.

Any 'joke' being made at another's expense is most certainly not in any way funny. That was one of my ex's ploys - but then he was a bully anyway.
Becoming a teacher after that, I hope I managed to help some of the bullied children I taught, but the schools I was in did not have high levels of bullying, I think.

 

[Uncayimmy]

SimonD

Any 'joke' being made at another's expense is most certainly not in any way funny.

A common belief among those who are easily bullied and those who derive pleasure from bullying. I, for one, have no problems with being the butt of a good joke. The humor is not lost on me. Of course, if it "hurts" the victim and the perpetrator knows it, that's bullying, and the cycle is perpetuated. They should come up with a catchy phrase that says in effect, "Physical objects may cause me injury but verbal assaults will not."

One common but certainly not universal trait among those who are habitually bullied is that they don't fight back. Physically, of course, this can be difficult. Verbally it's another matter entirely. I firmly believe that people can actively affect to a degree how verbal taunting/abuse affects them, and they can greatly affect their outward reactions, which in turn has an effect on how much of this verbal bullying they endure.

I've been accused of "bullying" people right here on this very forum. Somehow I am magically able to do this without running afoul of the rules requiring us to Be Civil and Polite and to Attack the Argument Not the Arguer. I have no shame in saying that I aggressively defend my positions and attack those held by others when it strikes me to do so. That's not bullying because I have no power over these people, and they don't have to engage me or even read my posts. I find those accusations of bullying to be absurd.

What's even more absurd is when they say that I just have to be right and won't let the argument go. Invariably the exchanges are back and forth where my opponent thinks he is right and won't let go of his position either. Why is one of us a bully who insists on being right while the other is, apparently, a victim?

My theory is that some people don't react well to feeling powerless, and if someone else "makes" them feel like that, they are being bullied. However, in many cases, the feeling of powerlessness has an internal source rather than an external one.

I was never bullied. There were a few attempts by a few foolish people, but it never worked out well for them. The only people I ever "bullied" were bullies. I can't stand to see the strong pick on the weak, so I'd substitute myself when the opportunity presented itself. If I had a chance to give them a taste of their own medicine, I would. The most aggravating were the groups who ganged up on others.

I can't stand to see people abuse their authority. I actively look for opportunities to challenge and chip away at that authority, even if it costs me personally. Unfortunately, power and authority is too often given to those who have no clue how to wield it. Many use it to bully while others simply have no clue how to use it and seem like they are bullying.

The dynamics of authority deserve their own thread, but I'll digress with a brief story. True power and authority come from within and the position merely formalizes it and offers an additional tool. My ex, all (barely) five feet and 100 pounds of her, was an elementary school teacher who commanded respect. She was directing a play, and the other three teachers were trying to get the four classes (and parents) to settle down with little success. My ex came out from behind the stage and simply stood on a chair to be seen. She didn't say a word. The entire group, parents included, quieted down within 10 seconds. She simply said, "Thank you" and went back to start the play.

She was never considered by anyone to be a "mean" teacher. Other less effective (in terms of classroom control) were, especially those who used their granted power over of the students to assert control. And some were definitely bullies.

 

[Jeff Corey]

Bullies, liars, cheaters, cowards, sexual predators... most of all of them start out the same way. It happened to them. They were a victim of it. They are fighting back. This is how they justify it in their head.

That may be true in some cases, but things are generally not that simple when it comes to behavior.

 

[Roboramma]

I would be willing to bet a significant sum of money that a large percentage of bullies were themselves bullied--most likely by their parents or caretakers when they were very young.

Bullies, liars, cheaters, cowards, sexual predators... most of all of them start out the same way. It happened to them. They were a victim of it. They are fighting back. This is how they justify it in their head.

"Willing to bet it's true" and "have evidence that it's true" are two different things.

It may be true that most bullies were themselves bullied, and it may even further be true that the bullying had a causal affect on them becoming bullies, but before I accept that, I'd need to see some evidence of it. It's a semi-reasonable hypothesis, but only that until we see the evidence.