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Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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BobTheDonkey said:
Why is that theory stupid? This isn't the first time a rape has turned into murder...
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What, you think Rudy is some sort of monkey or something? You think the evidence points to Rudy seeing Amanda and Raffaele petting each other and found it impossible to control his member so he decided to go take it out on Meredith because it was just too much to control?

That's not persuasive, that's a dirty old man fantasy.
 
HumanityBlues said:
What, you think Rudy is some sort of monkey or something? You think the evidence points to Rudy seeing Amanda and Raffaele petting each other and found it impossible to control his member so he decided to go take it out on Meredith because it was just too much to control?

That's not persuasive, that's a dirty old man fantasy.
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Why? Because you'd rather believe that these kinds of things don't happen in real life?
 
HumanityBlues said:
Murderers are not "nice guys" just because they can be charming.
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So rehabilitation is impossible. I don't want to put words in your mouth but it seems you're of the opinion that murder or not-murdering is not an act of volition but a psychological condition.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Why? Because you'd rather believe that these kinds of things don't happen in real life?
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When you put these things in lamens terms, yes, they sound ludicrous and stupid. If you believe in these fanciful scenarios, what can you do?

So is your theory also that Amanda and Raffaele went to have sex, and Rudy came out of the toilet, couldn't get in on their action, so decided to go try his luck with Meredith.

She resisted Rudy's advances, but Raffaele like pornography, so of course taking a woman by force excited him (btw, how many men on this thread don't look at any pornography? All the polls say most of you do. But I digress).

So Raffaele says, you know Amanda, I'm having a great time with you and me, but let's complicate the situation and force a girl against her will with this random guy I just met, and whatever happens, happens. Bring your knife too ya know? Why not? It could come in handy. I know how you love rape pranks.

Ya. That sounds like a dirty old man fantasy to me, but I realize some people find this entirely plausible.
 
HumanityBlues said:
When you put these things in lamens terms, yes, they sound ludicrous and stupid. If you believe in these fanciful scenarios, what can you do?

So is your theory also that Amanda and Raffaele went to have sex, and Rudy came out of the toilet, couldn't get in on their action, so decided to go try his luck with Meredith.

She resisted Rudy's advances, but Raffaele like pornography, so of course taking a woman by force excited him (btw, how many men on this thread don't look at any pornography? All the polls say most of you do. But I digress).

So Raffaele says, you know Amanda, I'm having a great time with you and me, but let's complicate the situation and force a girl against her will with this random guy I just met, and whatever happens, happens. Bring your knife too ya know? Why not? It could come in handy. I know how you love rape pranks.

Ya. That sounds like a dirty old man fantasy to me, but I realize some people find this entirely plausible.
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So you have a better explanation that fits all the evidence?


ETA: Argument from Incredulity, on your part, btw... Doesn't, in any way, negate that these kinds of things do happen.
 
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HumanityBlues said:
What, you think Rudy is some sort of monkey or something? You think the evidence points to Rudy seeing Amanda and Raffaele petting each other and found it impossible to control his member so he decided to go take it out on Meredith because it was just too much to control?

That's not persuasive, that's a dirty old man fantasy.
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I don't think it happened that way either. I think they cornered Meredith in her room. I also think Meredith swung first. That's when they subdued her. No old man's fantasy.

It happened in her room, which is telling. She was strong. And we know that Raffaele and Amanda were searching the floor for something after Meredith's death.
 
stilicho said:
So rehabilitation is impossible. I don't want to put words in your mouth but it seems you're of the opinion that murder or not-murdering is not an act of volition but a psychological condition.
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There is a great deal of debate actually over whether rehabilitation is possible. Many legislators here in the US have decided that jail is only for a retributive function.

If you murder someone, you have psychological issues. They can be influenced by conditions beyond one's control, by one's environment, or by depraved conditions, but it is not something any ol' individual is just going to do.

Can people change? Yes. That doesn't mean there's not something wrong with them.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
So you have a better explanation that fits all the evidence?


ETA: Argument from Incredulity, on your part, btw... Doesn't, in any way, negate that these kinds of things do happen.
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It's not argument from incredulity. There's no reasonable justification for that scenario. It's a stupid scenario plain and simple. I don't need a better explanation to say how stupid the judge's explanation is. It's stupid.
 
HumanityBlues said:
There is a great deal of debate actually over whether rehabilitation is possible. Many legislators here in the US have decided that jail is only for a retributive function.

If you murder someone, you have psychological issues. They can be influenced by conditions beyond one's control, by one's environment, or by depraved conditions, but it is not something any ol' individual is just going to do.

Can people change? Yes. That doesn't mean there's not something wrong with them.
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Is there anything wrong with you? I mean, as an example. You're starting to understand what I meant, I think. People do have problems and anyone who says they have nothing wrong with them probably really has something wrong with them.
 
stilicho said:
Is there anything wrong with you? I mean, as an example. You're starting to understand what I meant, I think. People do have problems and anyone who says they have nothing wrong with them probably really has something wrong with them.
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I can definitely be a prick, but I'm not going to ever murder someone barring I don't go insane.
 
HumanityBlues said:
It's not argument from incredulity. There's no reasonable justification for that scenario. It's a stupid scenario plain and simple. I don't need a better explanation to say how stupid the judge's explanation is. It's stupid.
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Stuff like this happens all the time, HB. That you can't come up with a reason that it's stupid other than you just don't believe it is, indeed, argument from incredulity.

Do a quick google search for "rape murder". See just how many hits you get.
 
HumanityBlues said:
It's not argument from incredulity. There's no reasonable justification for that scenario. It's a stupid scenario plain and simple. I don't need a better explanation to say how stupid the judge's explanation is. It's stupid.
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What's so far fetched about a prank rape scenario that gets out of hand under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol? I recall that Amanda organized similar scenario previously at university... will take a while to cite this though so feel free to shoot me down.
 
43degreesNorth said:
What's so far fetched about a prank rape scenario that gets out of hand under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol? I recall that Amanda organized similar scenario previously at university... will take a while to cite this though so feel free to shoot me down.
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So far, this is nothing more than hearsay.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Stuff like this happens all the time, HB. That you can't come up with a reason that it's stupid other than you just don't believe it is, indeed, argument from incredulity.

Do a quick google search for "rape murder". See just how many hits you get.
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Yes, rape murders happen all the time. No one said otherwise.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
So then why don't you believe it could have happened here? That this "rape turned to murder" is just a Judge trying to get off?
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I never said it couldn't happen here. But I know it didn't happen the way the judges said. Their description of the event is stupid.
 
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HumanityBlues said:
I can definitely be a prick, but I'm not going to ever murder someone barring I don't go insane.
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Then why aren't more murderers released for reason of insanity? Why doesn't that defence work? What is it that makes a housewife or a student or a sales manager or a construction worker go from ordinary person with problems to murder?

I don't want to put words in your mouth. Tell me how you can tell the difference between "HB-went-insane" and "HB-is-depraved", on the one hand, and "HB-committed-murder", on the other. If you have the key to this puzzle then we can simply lock up the insane and depraved people and there would never be any murders.
 
stilicho said:
Then why aren't more murderers released for reason of insanity? Why doesn't that defence work? What is it that makes a housewife or a student or a sales manager or a construction worker go from ordinary person with problems to murder?

I don't want to put words in your mouth. Tell me how you can tell the difference between "HB-went-insane" and "HB-is-depraved", on the one hand, and "HB-committed-murder", on the other. If you have the key to this puzzle then we can simply lock up the insane and depraved people and there would never be any murders.
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Maybe the discussion is best for another thread honestly. Or you can PM me. I'm not dismissing your questions, and it is an interesting topic, but I don't think it's going anywhere on this thread.
 
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