Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[LondonJohn]

Of course he feared. But only in the short term, he never needed to in the long run...which he now knows in hindsight. Police will often arrest people only to release them later without charge, this happens the world over. The fact he was swiftly eliminated shows the system works.

Here's an interesting thing though: What if Lumumba hadn't had a cast iron alibi from a visiting Swiss professor whose integrity and accuracy were very difficult to impugn? After all, at the time of the "confession", neither the police nor AK had any idea whether Lumumba would be able to credibly explain his whereabouts.

Lumumba had nothing to do with the murder. We (and the police) only know this with virtual certainty because the unimpeachable Swiss professor happened to be talking with Lumumba in his bar. But what if - hypothetically speaking - Lumumba's wife and child had gone to visit relatives, "Le Chic" was closed for the night due to low trade, and Patrick had decided to have a quiet night in on his own, reading a book.

Would Lumumba still have had anything to fear from the police and the justice system under that second scenario of having no decent alibi? Bear in mind that AK's statements of the night of the 5/6 Nov WOULD have been admissible against Lumumba (they were merely ruled inadmissible for any self-incriminating areas). And also bear in mind the mysterious Lumumba cellphone "ping" that seemed to place him in the vicinity of the cottage that evening. And further bear in mind that the prevailing police (and by extension prosecutors') view up until the alibi discovery was that Lumumba was DEEPLY involved - and they repeatedly told him that in no uncertain terms.

Of course it's true that no forensic evidence whatsoever would have ever been found linking Lumumba to the murder scene - because he wasn't present. But that again throws up the old "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" maxim. And the police already had an eyewitness putting the knife in Lumumba's hand (whether that testimony subsequently retracted or not), and the strange cellphone ping, as well as the original "see you later" text message. The police had already woven a very explicit narrative involving Lumumba and AK - it might not have been a stretch for them to add RG to the narrative once his DNA had been discovered at the scene. And hey presto - the case is solved!

 

[Fulcanelli]

I don't think I have said anything on this thread about what legal privileges Amanda and Raffaele should have had.

I see that in both your posts, though, you have once again decided to sidestep the issues. To take the authorities' actions at face value strikes me as the antithesis of skepticism.

People ask you questions and you refuse to answer them. What is the point of trying to have a dialog with you?

Right, so just to confirm...you don't think that at any point up until the point the police finally made them suspects and arrested them, they should have done so? Good, great, I'm glad we have that confirmed on record. Finally, something we both agree on.

Face value? Who is? Please define 'on face value'? Does it mean, not accusing the police of wrongdoing without any evidence for it? If your definition means accusing the authorities of dishonesty, criminality and abuse without any evidence other then the mere fact one is asserting it, then I'm guilty as charged. Skpeticism does not mean accusing people of all manner of offences without evidence.

And speaking of skepticism, have you ever once been skeptical of Amanda and Raffaele's innocence? Or, is this skepticism only supposed to go one way? How wonderfully convenient. It seems that what you're really upset about, is that people don't want to play your game with your loaded deck.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

This thread is a never ending circle. I like how Fulcanelli comes in and cherry picks sentences and takes a machine gun approach. His confidence is very interesting. Entertaining in fact. Facts and logic don't matter when you take the machine gun approach. Fire enough bullets and you are bound to hit something. When you stop the sarcastic tone and look at the actual facts, the prosecution's case is very weak.

Nothing will be resolved here. Minds are made up. All logic is gone.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Here's an interesting thing though: What if Lumumba hadn't had a cast iron alibi from a visiting Swiss professor whose integrity and accuracy were very difficult to impugn? After all, at the time of the "confession", neither the police nor AK had any idea whether Lumumba would be able to credibly explain his whereabouts.

Lumumba had nothing to do with the murder. We (and the police) only know this with virtual certainty because the unimpeachable Swiss professor happened to be talking with Lumumba in his bar. But what if - hypothetically speaking - Lumumba's wife and child had gone to visit relatives, "Le Chic" was closed for the night due to low trade, and Patrick had decided to have a quiet night in on his own, reading a book.

Would Lumumba still have had anything to fear from the police and the justice system under that second scenario of having no decent alibi? Bear in mind that AK's statements of the night of the 5/6 Nov WOULD have been admissible against Lumumba (they were merely ruled inadmissible for any self-incriminating areas). And also bear in mind the mysterious Lumumba cellphone "ping" that seemed to place him in the vicinity of the cottage that evening. And further bear in mind that the prevailing police (and by extension prosecutors') view up until the alibi discovery was that Lumumba was DEEPLY involved - and they repeatedly told him that in no uncertain terms.

Of course it's true that no forensic evidence whatsoever would have ever been found linking Lumumba to the murder scene - because he wasn't present. But that again throws up the old "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" maxim. And the police already had an eyewitness putting the knife in Lumumba's hand (whether that testimony subsequently retracted or not), and the strange cellphone ping, as well as the original "see you later" text message. The police had already woven a very explicit narrative involving Lumumba and AK - it might not have been a stretch for them to add RG to the narrative once his DNA had been discovered at the scene. And hey presto - the case is solved!

I agree that this scenario could very well have played out. And, really, all I can say is that it's a wonderful thing that it didn't play out this way. Methinks I'll never again spend a night alone at home...

 

[LondonJohn]

If you haven't yet, I suggest you visit PMF and read Amanda's Testimony in the "In Their Own Words" section. What I have presented is nearly exactly what Amanda related happened.

Well, I would if I could..................................

 

[Fulcanelli]

Here's an interesting thing though: What if Lumumba hadn't had a cast iron alibi from a visiting Swiss professor whose integrity and accuracy were very difficult to impugn? After all, at the time of the "confession", neither the police nor AK had any idea whether Lumumba would be able to credibly explain his whereabouts.

Well, I'm not really into the game of 'what if', only what was and what is. I see little point and it's a distraction. 'But', he probably would have spent a little longer in prison but still would have been released. After all, no evidence or independent witnesses were found to connect him to the crime. Thus is in stark contrast to the other three.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Well, I would if I could..................................

So you're not so new to the case as you claim?

I truly am a "newbie" to this whole case - not just to this forum.

 

[LondonJohn]

I agree that this scenario could very well have played out. And, really, all I can say is that it's a wonderful thing that it didn't play out this way. Methinks I'll never again spend a night alone at home...

Me too - I'm currently home alone, but I'm trusting that you will be able to provide me from a distance with an alibi if I'm falsely accused of committing a murder that happened 50 miles from London within the past two hours

PS I'm hoping that your integrity and accuracy are also unimpeachable

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Amanda's apology

I'm not sure an apology at trial would have been an additional apology. I believe Amanda was asked (during her June 2009 court appearance), "Did you ever say you were sorry to Patrick?" and she replied, "No." Amanda may have told her mother or attorney she was sorry for the predicament Patrick was in and maybe they relayed that information to Patrick (in November).

Possibly she meant by direct communication. Candace Dempsey (p. 231 Murder in Italy) quoted Frank Sfarzo's blog to describe Amanda's November 30, 2007 court appearance,"She claimed she'd spent the night at Raffaele's place. She also apologized to Patrick." This came after the time that Patrick said that Amanda did not have a soul (p. 228).

 

[Bruce Fischer]

How does everyone feel about Rudy Guede getting out of prison in 5 years?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Possibly she meant by direct communication. Candace Dempsey (p. 231 Murder in Italy) quoted Frank Sfarzo's blog to describe Amanda's November 30, 2007 court appearance,"She claimed she'd spent the night at Raffaele's place. She also apologized to Patrick." This came after the time that Patrick said that Amanda did not have a soul (p. 228).

Dempsey's wrong. And if Dempsey were to tell me the sky is blue...I'd go outside and check.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Dempsey's wrong. And if Dempsey were to tell me the sky is blue...I'd go outside and check.

That's right, Barbie is your author of choice. Enough said.

 

[Fulcanelli]

How does everyone feel about Rudy Guede getting out of prison in 5 years?

Ask us in five years, especially as you've not shown he is getting out in five years anyway. None of us know when he is getting out. When he 'might' or 'could' get out is a different matter, but might is not 'is'.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

This is an excellent article in regard to Barbie Latza Nadeau's book.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.com/MarkWaterbury-6.html

 

[LondonJohn]

So you're not so new to the case as you claim?

Nothing sinister, and yes, I am as new as I claim. I lasted approximately a month on PMF from start to finish (if I recall correctly), before I was summarily dismissed - with an interesting explanation, I might add.

But in hindsight, I don't regard it as a big loss. It's a shame I can't use it as an interesting resource, but posting on there brought me more vitriol and disrespect than I felt comfortable with enduring day in and day out. Anyone who's still allowed to view that forum can make up their own minds on my style and content of posting there during my brief tenure. By and large, my posts on there were similar in tone to my posts on here...

 

[Fulcanelli]

That's right, Barbie is your author of choice. Enough said.

Barbie...along with all the other independent professional reporters that actually attended the trial week in and week out.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Possibly she meant by direct communication.

When/where did this "direct communication" happen?

 

[HumanityBlues]

Nothing sinister, and yes, I am as new as I claim. I lasted approximately a month on PMF from start to finish (if I recall correctly), before I was summarily dismissed - with an interesting explanation, I might add.

But in hindsight, I don't regard it as a big loss. It's a shame I can't use it as an interesting resource, but posting on there brought me more vitriol and disrespect than I felt comfortable with enduring day in and day out. Anyone who's still allowed to view that forum can make up their own minds on my style and content of posting there during my brief tenure. By and large, my posts on there were similar in tone to my posts on here...

Don't worry. All the people from PMF know their forum sucks anyways, otherwise they wouldn't all waste so much time posting here, or talking about this thread.

 

[Fulcanelli]

The Book of Barbie
Some of the sharpest stones thrown in the Media Lottery of Amanda Knox have been hurled by travel and dining columnist Barbie Latza Nadeau. For that reason, and because she has written a book that is just as bad, let’s look at several of her pieces.

Nice diatribe...and you certainly put some effort into writing it. Yet, all you provide to show she's wrong about anything in it is assertion and opinion, rather then any actual sources. In short, unsupported accusations...as usual.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Don't worry. All the people from PMF know their forum sucks anyways, otherwise they wouldn't all waste so much time posting here, or talking about this thread.

Injustice in Perugia is now the most read website detailing this case. The Injustice site currently gets more traffic than TJMK and PMF combined in the USA and it has now passed both sites in total traffic worldwide.

Many people have contributed to the site. Charlie Wilkes said it best:

"The Injustice in Perugia website is part of a wave of activism that continues to build in support of Amanda and Raffaele. This wave is spontaneous, it is not under the control of any individual or agency, and it will not subside until Amanda and Raffaele are free and exonerated of all charges."


http://www.injusticeinperugia.org