Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fulcanelli]

I need to ask, but is there any actual science on "Science Spheres", all I can find from looking through some of the articles are supposition and hints at conspiracies?

No, but there are lots of unsupported theories, all pointing towards one outcome...no surprises there

 

[quadraginta]

That is bat guano crazy. There is nothing else I can say about it

I'm still confused. Is there a term for a compounded non sequitur?

"Bat guano crazy" is probably good.

 

[odeed]

I need to ask, but is there any actual science on "Science Spheres", all I can find from looking through some of the articles are supposition and hints at conspiracies?

Just a critique of the Science Sphere's articles, to show what I mean.

On the article "Methods of the Polizia PseudoScientifica: A Knife, a Clasp, a Glow", this paragraph

A Clasp
Making sense out of the bra clasp DNA, which reportedly includes profiles from approximately five people, would be a challenge even with careful, rigorous control experiments. Without them, it is hopeless. Ask yourself this simple question. What would happen to any random object left on the same floor and kicked about for 46 days? Especially an object with cloth attached , making it a virtual dust mop. It would be covered with dust, and the DNA that comes with that dust. Raffaele was at the apartment visiting Amanda on several occasions. The presence of his DNA there means nothing.

and then in this article "The Crucible of Perugia",

Similarly, there was no DNA from Raffaele in the room. There were no footprints, no handprints, no other traces and he had no wounds. None. Of course, the prosecution tried to assert that there were. They grossly mismatched his foot and shoe to prints clearly left by Rudy. They dug up the bra clasp 47 days after the rest of the forensic data was collected, after it was kicked about the floor, buried under a rug, and seriously contaminated. They then declared that it, and it alone (not the bra that it was cut off from!) carried his DNA. But setting aside this single piece of grossly contaminated and quite possibly planted evidence; there was no trace of Raffaele at the scene of the crime.

So Dr Mark Waterbury PHD, presents two different scenarios with little (if any) evidence for the bra clasp.

That's from a brief look of the articles in the last couple of hours.

 

[Fiona]

The site is a disgrace, odeed. It is not worth one moment of anyone's attention

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Just a critique of the Science Sphere's articles, to show what I mean.

On the article "Methods of the Polizia PseudoScientifica: A Knife, a Clasp, a Glow", this paragraph



and then in this article "The Crucible of Perugia",


So Dr Mark Waterbury PHD, presents two different scenarios with little (if any) evidence for the bra clasp.

That's from a brief look of the articles in the last couple of hours.

So, what we have here is the classic:

It wasn't Raffaele's DNA, but even if it was Raffaele's DNA it was there because he had been at the cottage before.

In other words: There's no True Raffaele's DNA (a.k.a. scotsman)

 

[bucketoftea]

Where's Waterbury gone? No biology,eh? Biochemistry is so much more complicated in practice than physical chemistry, for example so many variations of common enzymes.

I'm surprised he regards the scientists using sophisticated instruments whose principles are well understood by them as though they were consumers of domestic appliances.

There is absolutely nothing wrong to me in principle with hoiking up the sensitivity beyond the manufacturer's recommendations in the context of this test. I was performing PCR years ago long before there were machines for the job...makes me feel quite nostalgic...it entailed a certain amount of improvisation and what we fondly called our *bucket chemistry" trial and error honing (can you hone a fluid?) our buffers.

The scientist utilises the tool.

Dr.Waterbury is being disingenuous with us. He should know all about quality control methods and the largest margin of error (narrowest range guaranteed) sought by manufacturers and still be reasonable/competitive. There are at least 2 reasons for this:
1. liability
2. room for "improvement" for a subsequent model.

As for the inability to retest because the sample was destroyed, a scientist would still report the findings, not throw them out. We find the findings. And we report them

...I just isolated a teeny tiny quantity of unknown genetic material from inside a meteorite, but the sample was consumed. The genie's out of the bottle, mate.

Usually one of the things you learn when you become as advanced in your studies as you have is not only an awareness of how much there is still to know of one's own metier, but a humble appreciation of how damn. little you probably know about anyone else's

 

[christianahannah]

Actually, there was 'another' statement handed to the police that was not heard in the trial or reported by the media (for very good reasons), but I can't go into that.

In trying to answer my own questions about declarations and times it appears that Amanda was called into the Questura every day from November 2 to November 5.

According to testimony (In Their Own Words - PMF) declarations were taken from Amanda on:

November 2 @15:30
November 3 @14:45
November 4 @ 14:45

It appears from testimony that Amanda visited the Questura at least twice on November 4; I don't know if she visited the Questura more than once November 2, 3 and 5.

Amanda came into the Questura with Raffaele (who was called in to be questioned) on November 5 @ 22:30 (approx) and was herself questioned soon after that where she made declarations November 6 @ 1:45 to police and spontaneous declarations @ 5:45 to PM.

On November 6 and 7 she composed memorandums.

On November 8 she was interrogated by PM. Was there a declaration from Amanda during this interrogation?

There may be more times that Amanda was questioned and declarations signed. Was Raffaele similarly questioned as frequently?

 

[odeed]

So, what we have here is the classic:

It wasn't Raffaele's DNA, but even if it was Raffaele's DNA it was there because he had been at the cottage before.

In other words: There's no True Raffaele's DNA (a.k.a. scotsman)

I was thinking more along the lines of Schrodinger's cat for some reason.

It is both in the room and not in the room, until you look in the room then...head explodes.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I was thinking more along the lines of Schrodinger's cat for some reason.

It is both in the room and not in the room, until you look in the room then...head explodes.

Schrodinger's DNA?


Schrodinger's the 2nd murderer!

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Actually, there was 'another' statement handed to the police that was not heard in the trial or reported by the media (for very good reasons), but I can't go into that.

Are you actually pretending to have information that others do not have?

As you always say, Post it up!

 

[Bruce Fischer]

I never knew you were funny Bruce.




How can photos show that? Are you still claiming Filomena trashed her own room? And this is all 'proven' by the photos?

The room wasn't ransacked. Filomena's room was messy. There was no intentional ransacking to be seen.

Where has your buddy Kermit gone? I bet he measured that window and he realized that it wasn't that high after all. He was going to make a fancy powerpoint showing all of us how it would take spiderman to climb through that window. When you measure it out, you come to realize that it was an easy climb.

If Amanda and Raffaele actually murdered Meredith, why would Raffaele call the police to investigate the cottage?

 

[bucketoftea]

The room wasn't ransacked. Filomena's room was messy. There was no intentional ransacking to be seen.

Where has your buddy Kermit gone? I bet he measured that window and he realized that it wasn't that high after all. He was going to make a fancy powerpoint showing all of us how it would take spiderman to climb through that window. When you measure it out, you come to realize that it was an easy climb.

If Amanda and Raffaele actually murdered Meredith, why would Raffaele call the police to investigate the cottage?

The police turned up without being called.

 

[bucketoftea]

...and I thought Raff told the police about the ransacking.

 

[Fiona]

As did Filomena.

 

[Fulcanelli]

On November 8 she was interrogated by PM. Was there a declaration from Amanda during this interrogation?

No...not on the 8th. Amanda was interrogated only twice...once by the police on the night of the 5th and a second time in December. She 'was' questioned by Judge Claudia Matteini in court on the 9th, as part of the hearing.

 

[Mary_H]

Mary H, perhaps you can tell us why it is so 'creepy' that members of PMF who cover this case attended a public fundraiser that was advertised in the public media in order to garner public attendance? They did not attend to follow Dempsey, they didn't even know she'd be there attending as a family guest...she was caught. Why is her going not not creepy? Why is it creepy if PMF go?

Did they contribute money, or were they just there to observe? What was the purpose of their attendance?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Are you actually pretending to have information that others do not have?

As you always say, Post it up!

Yes, I do. And I won't post it, because firstly it sheds no light on the case and secondly it came from an inside source. And note, since I'm not providing it, I'm not making any claims about it either. All I will state, is that there 'was' another statement (not limited to text only but also drawings) that has never been made public and was not part of the case file...even the FOA don't have it.

 

[Malkmus]

The police turned up without being called.

I find it hard to believe that Rafaelle had the foresight or intuition to know to call the police after they had already shown up.

IMO... if you're caught at the scene of a crime by the police, it is instinct to just deal with the situation at hand. I think if it were me or anyone else, you just assume that the police are there and that's that. Not "Oh, crap, the cops are here, I better call their headquarters so they think I'm the reason they've come. I'm also going to have to hide while I make this phone call so no one sees me make it - not suspicious at all - and pray that the officers here haven't properly recorded their arrival time and that the CCTV outside has the wrong time encoded". It requires such mental gymnastics to even conceive of such a plot.

I believe he called the carabinieri and that the postal policer showed up minutes afterwards. It's a coincidence, yes. But there's no denying that a huge coincidence had already occurred (the finding of the cell phones resulting in the arrival of the postal police at the same time Raf and Amanda were piecing things together themselves). I also think the fact that when the postal police arrived and found them standing outside (WITHOUT bucket in hand) is complimentary of my theory. If they hadn't already called the police, and didn't expect them at that moment, don't you think they'd be inside cleaning up? Certainly not standing outside aimlessly.

Not to mention his phone call to police matches up linearly with the preceding call to his sister asking her what to do.

 

[Mary_H]

I also note the hypocrisy here from you...anything Raffaele said to a reporter (Kate Mansey) in a personal interview isn't of the least importance, but anything Rudy may have said to his pal over skype is of utmost importance.

I take hardly anything about this case at face value. I measure it against the facts and the likelihood of the speaker saying what he is quoted as saying. The articles about Raffaele were particularly egregious and demanded further research.

There is nothing particularly startling or unlikely about Rudy's skype conversation and it seems to have beeen quoted by more credible sources. I don't have knee-jerk reactions to Rudy's writings just because they're by Rudy. When I first started looking at this case, I didn't even believe Amanda had written the first e-mail she sent to her friends and family.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Did they contribute money, or were they just there to observe? What was the purpose of their attendance?

They were in the public bar of Salty's...the event took place in a function room downstairs into which they didn't enter, that was for guests of the function (of which Candace Dempsey was one). The PMF team remained in the public area and watched everyone arrive for the function downstairs. Two of our members were even interviewed by reporters and their interview was broadcast on television.