9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[little grey rabbit]

I won't go over the translation issue again. For audience to which I made the remark it was understood to denote a one line summary of a multi-page letter, not a literal translation.

Simply because a typical JREF clown goes over to RODOH and finds himself completely out his depth, is not something I am responsible for.

And I did say that the foundation may be in error in attributing that but that I do not know because I had seen neither the documentation yet nor seen their sources. (Which they judging from the scan (thanks to the guy that calls us "spastics", which seems to indicate he is one of the run of the mill German neonazis) didn't give.)

Unfortunately, you need to realize that JREFers are not really putting up a very good display here, of neither knowledge nor manners nor intellectual honesty. The person who referred to the JREFers here as such would not refer to someone like Dr Terry as a "spastic". He referred to JREFers as "spastics" as that is a very good, if somewhat politically unfortunate, description.

Should you manage to raise the level, perhaps he will reconsider? It is at least an ambition to strive for.

 

[Moss]

I won't go over the translation issue again. For audience to which I made the remark it was understood to denote a one line summary of a multi-page letter, not a literal translation.

Simply because a typical JREF clown goes over to RODOH and finds himself completely out his depth, is not something I am responsible for.


Unfortunately, you need to realize that JREFers are not really putting up a very good display here, of neither knowledge nor manners nor intellectual honesty. The person who referred to the JREFers here as such would not refer to someone like Dr Terry as a "spastic". He referred to JREFers as "spastics" as that is a very good, if somewhat politically unfortunate, description.

Should you manage to raise the level, perhaps he will reconsider? It is at least an ambition to strive for.

How about you raise the level of your discourse by actually providing evidence to back up your claims? I have pointed you in the direction.

 

[little grey rabbit]

How about you raise the level of your discourse by actually providing evidence to back up your claims? I have pointed you in the direction.

Because in relation to the context of this letter referring to the muffles of Krema II or III (or in my view purporting to, as I do not believe the letter is genuine) I have no reason to dispute the unanimous scholarly consensus.

If you wish to dispute it, the onus falls on you.

 

[9/11-investigator]

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Who said anything about Nizkor? If you believe the translation to be in error, why don't *you* show us how, instead of just sneering?

Because you gave no source and Nizkor popped up first in google. No German translation to be found anywhere. Strange...

But why should I put an effort in validating your non-evidence?

Wait, when I search in Dalton's article for riff-raff I find this:

Jul 6, 1940 (I.8.207)
The American Jewish press is entirely on Churchill’s side. Now, suddenly, France is no longer the ideal democratic nation. Riff-raff that must be eradicated (ausgerottet).

Are you trying to tell me that Goebbels expected the 'American Jewish Press' to exterminate France?

Throws an interesting new light on the meaning of 'ausrotten'. It certainly does not mean exterminate. Goebbels probably used the word 'ausrotten' in your riff-raff quote as well. No wonder 'TSR' is not going to give us the German original quote.

 

[Moss]

Because in relation to the context of this letter referring to the muffles of Krema II or III (or in my view purporting to, as I do not believe the letter is genuine) I have no reason to dispute the unanimous scholarly consensus.

If you wish to dispute it, the onus falls on you.

Instead of a critical analysis of "what does it actually say and in relation to what?" you go down the road of "I deem it unlikely that the letter ended up in Tereczin therefore it is likely to be a fake"?
Probabilities can be interesting. But when it comes to historical documents you still have to look at the provenance. Have you done that?
"Unanimous scholarly consensus"? Where else is that letter discussed? You wouldn't be bluffing, would you?

 

[9/11-investigator]

I had done so in post #3558, I saw no reason to repeat myself. Your most recent lie was about the contents of a Dutch magazine article.

Making a mistake is not identical to telling a lie. I explained what happened, even my fierce opponent ddt accepted that explanation.

Oh. You ARE American after all.

I am protestant Dutch (eeuwenlang 'van vreemde smetten vrij'), although born 5 km on the 'wrong' (Dutch) side of the Dutch/German border. No idea what you are nor do I care. Just in case you are English, I consider the Channel 5000 km wide.

How did Orwell put it again?

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/1984_fictious_world_map.png

Not unlike Huntington's map. Roughly: Europe, Anglo/Jews, Muslims, China. Correctly no mentioning of India.

Except for Turkey (and South-America) this is my geostrategic map, as in self-fulfilling prophecy. Anglosphere under control of the Jews, Eurasia under control of the Europeans. Putins, Schroeders and Chiracs 'no' against the Iraq safari in 2003 orchestrated by Anglosphere after they (Mossad) themselves telecrashed planes into buildings in 2001 in order to create the pretext for the war, is a clear sign of things to come.

The Death of the West, let's bring it on.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Instead of a critical analysis of "what does it actually say and in relation to what?" you go down the road of "I deem it unlikely that the letter ended up in Tereczin therefore it is likely to be a fake"?
Probabilities can be interesting. But when it comes to historical documents you still have to look at the provenance. Have you done that?

The references say it was at Thereseinstadt, unless we join with Mr Ellard that Buchenwald Memorial Foundation is lying again, I assume they are right.

If you can find the 30 muffles I can assure you I will be fully convinced of the letter's authenticity. I can assure you that no one can locate those 30 muffles, doubtless for the simple reason they never existed.

 

[Moss]

The references say it was at Thereseinstadt, unless we join with Mr Ellard that Buchenwald Memorial Foundation is lying again, I assume they are right.

If you can find the 30 muffles I can assure you I will be fully convinced of the letter's authenticity. I can assure you that no one can locate those 30 muffles, doubtless for the simple reason they never existed.

Provenance is more than where it ended up. You want to dispute it is genuine, so: Where did it come from? Or rather in your scenario: where does it allegedly come from and is there anything you can poke holes into that story with?
And back we are at the muffles again: So, where in that reply letter to an order you don't want to look up does it say it's the same muffles? Quote the part.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Provenance is more than where it ended up. You want to dispute it is genuine, so: Where did it come from? Or rather in your scenario: where does it allegedly come from and is there anything you can poke holes into that story with?

I would love to know that information, unfortunately there is no way I could write a letter requesting it to which the Thereseinstadt archive would reply to. I would have to use some kind of subterfuge to obtain that information.

Ideally someone who honestly did believe in the Hoax could write requesting that information and they might reply. Trouble is where to find a person on JREF who genuinely believes in the Hoax and would be prepared to do it?

And back we are at the muffles again: So, where in that reply letter to an order you don't want to look up does it say it's the same muffles? Quote the part.

Let me clear, on the first page of that letter it is nowhere stated that the 30 muffles that it refers to is the same 30 muffles that the Soviet Commission of 1945 stated were evacuated from Birkenau via Gross-Rosen.

I, however, except the unanimous scholarly consensus that they were the same.

 

[VonKleist]

Making a mistake is not identical to telling a lie. I explained what happened, even my fierce opponent ddt accepted that explanation.

Well, we both know that explanation is bollocks.

Not unlike Huntington's map. Roughly: Europe, Anglo/Jews, Muslims, China. Correctly no mentioning of India.

Except for Turkey (and South-America) this is my geostrategic map, as in self-fulfilling prophecy. Anglosphere under control of the Jews, Eurasia under control of the Europeans. Putins, Schroeders and Chiracs 'no' against the Iraq safari in 2003 orchestrated by Anglosphere after they (Mossad) themselves telecrashed planes into buildings in 2001 in order to create the pretext for the war, is a clear sign of things to come.

Now THIS is more like it. Off-topic maybe, but a lot more entertaining.

 

[TSR]

Because you gave no source and Nizkor popped up first in google. No German translation to be found anywhere. Strange...

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Because, of course, if it does not appear on the Web, it does not exist. You have been given several sources for the English translation, and apparently Irving has copies of the original.
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But why should I put an effort in validating your non-evidence?

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You wouldn't be. You would be supporting your sneer and insinuation that the translation I offered was incorrect. Since I have offered multiple sources giving the same translation, it is reasonable to accept that it is accurate. If you wish to *credibly* dispute this, you may do so by demonstrating why each of the sources given got it wrong by referring to the original.

But you'd rather hand-wave and sneer, knowing that if you actually *tried* this demonstration, it would be doomed to failure...
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Wait, when I search in Dalton's article for riff-raff I find this:

Jul 6, 1940 (I.8.207)
The American Jewish press is entirely on Churchill’s side. Now, suddenly, France is no longer the ideal democratic nation. Riff-raff that must be eradicated (ausgerottet).

Are you trying to tell me that Goebbels expected the 'American Jewish Press' to exterminate France?

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Since the American Jewish press has no way to accomplish any such "ausrottung" (no matter even if one uses whatever spin you wanted to put on the word) and given that Goebbels knows this, your interpretation is unlikely. I think it far more probable that the "riff-raff" referred to is that same press, and that Goebbels wants them eliminated as well.
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Throws an interesting new light on the meaning of 'ausrotten'. It certainly does not mean exterminate. Goebbels probably used the word 'ausrotten' in your riff-raff quote as well. No wonder 'TSR' is not going to give us the German original quote.

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No, it is not interesting. It is a tired canard, which one notes is never ever tried by anyone for whom German is the native language.
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I would love to know that information, unfortunately there is no way I could write a letter requesting it to which the Thereseinstadt archive would reply to. I would have to use some kind of subterfuge to obtain that information.

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What some cheese with that whine? You don't and can't know this, but don't let that stop you from using it as an excuse not to even try. Heavens forbid you should actually try to support your crap with anything other than more crap.
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I, however, except the unanimous scholarly consensus that they were the same.

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The problem here is that, even after having been invited several times to document this supposed consensus, you have singularly failed to do so.

But then, singularly failing is what you're best at, isn't it...
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[little grey rabbit]

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What some cheese with that whine? You don't and can't know this, but don't let that stop you from using it as an excuse not to even try. Heavens forbid you should actually try to support your crap with anything other than more crap.
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I can and do know this. I did what I thought was a rather cunning subterfuge once. I wrote a thread regarding a question that I was then particularly interested in (namely if the ovens at Sachsenhausen were supposed to have underground flues connecting to the chimney stack, which they clearly didn't, or otherwise how did the ovens connect?) and alleged loudly that the ovens/gas chambers were a soviet fake. I then registered another account and argued passionately against this, and said I was going to contact the museum to get the facts and prove (myself) wrong.

I then emailed Sachsenhausen using the identity of the passionate anti-revisionist. I got a lovely email back from Sachsenhausen praising the efforts I put into protecting historical memory, but neatly side stepping answering the question I was interested in.

However, TSR, if you would like to prove me wrong, I am quite happy to draft a suitable neutral email to get the information Moss suggested and you can send it.

 

[TSR]

However, TSR, if you would like to prove me wrong, I am quite happy to draft a suitable neutral email to get the information Moss suggested and you can send it.

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Because, of course, the Sachsenhausen folks have nothing better to do than to monitor anonymous accounts on a random internet forum, so as to determine which nyms should and should not be responded to.

But let's go ahead and run with this -- let's run with this. Show us what sort of a message you "honestly" believe should elicit the desired information?
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[little grey rabbit]

I don't think they monitor nyms, but memorial directors know what kind of questions to answer and what to not answer. In the case of Sachsenhausen I linked to the thread where I stated what I thought was a problem. As far as I am aware the director of Sachsenhausen believed me when I said I was anti-revisionist and just wanted information to debunk. He side-stepped because the information was incriminating, not for any other reason.

And that, in the end, would be the case with Tereseinstadt. In the same way I can't get a reply from the Hague about the reference number for any Soviet Soap they are supposed to hold

However, and I am about to log off for the night, shall we make it a competition? Who can get the most provenance information from Thereseinstadt and who can first get the archival reference number for Soviet Soap from the Hague?

I would certainly be keen. I am very interested in both!

 

[TSR]

I don't think they monitor nyms, but memorial directors know what kind of questions to answer and what to not answer. In the case of Sachsenhausen I linked to the thread where I stated what I thought was a problem. As far as I am aware the director of Sachsenhausen believed me when I said I was anti-revisionist and just wanted information to debunk. He side-stepped because the information was incriminating, not for any other reason.

And that, in the end, would be the case with Tereseinstadt. In the same way I can't get a reply from the Hague about the reference number for any Soviet Soap they are supposed to hold

However, and I am about to log off for the night, shall we make it a competition? Who can get the most provenance information from Thereseinstadt and who can first get the archival reference number for Soviet Soap from the Hague?

I would certainly be keen. I am very interested in both!

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No, I am not interested in any sort of "competition".

But one notes with amuzement the implied content of your email, and your reported surprize at the response you got.

Post your proposed letter here, and we will critique it for you.
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[Skeptic]

These folks claim that holocaust denial is an evil lie about suffering Jews that might well never have happened and is now part of a religious dogma that violently reacts to those who deny it.

Well, that sort of thing happened before...

 

[carlitos]

If you were trying to be obtuse, congratulations. Try better sentence structure.

 

[dudalb]

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Because Dalton is not just a pen name, it is identity theft, since there is a *real* Thomas Dalton, who *is* a full Professor at U of AZ, and the author is neither..
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As far as being a thief, This http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton_Gang bunch of Daltons were a lot more sucessful then this lame attempt at identity theft.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Because in relation to the context of this letter referring to the muffles of Krema II or III (or in my view purporting to, as I do not believe the letter is genuine) I have no reason to dispute the unanimous scholarly consensus.

If you wish to dispute it, the onus falls on you.

OK, that means us "spastic" JREF "rope-a-dopes" have solved your "missing muffles" mis-translation problem. Therefore despite us being "fair game" you are obliged to now locate the missing jews that you claim were re located in the east. This is what you promised. Are you going to do this or simply run away again?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

In the same way I can't get a reply from the Hague about the reference number for any Soviet Soap they are supposed to hold

Rubbish. I asked you you show us this email you sent requesting evidence a month ago and you ran away. You never sent any such email. Prove me wrong by posting a copy of the email you sent here.