Moderated Iron sun with Aether batteries...

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I have been looking at this image, and I don't see the green line in this one:
http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/assets/img/firstlight/preview/composite20100330_4096.jpg

I think this is the same one MM linked to?
ETA:I agree it is a compression artifact.

I am way wrong, I have a different photo, it is a conspiracy I tell you!
That is the image that MM is totally ignoring as in this question (number 60 of 64 :eye-poppi !)
 
Why hasn't the "thin" GREEN "line" shown up in other "outer-space" images? IV - SOHO's EIT

It's spatial resolution is not as good as the others I've covered so far (5"), but its passbands more suitable (17.1 nm, 19.5 nm, 28.4 nm, and 30.4 nm - source). Nonetheless, more than adequate to test the MM 'thin green band' idea.


Here's a full-res .gif 17.1 nm EIT image:
http://umbra.nascom.nasa.gov/eit/images/latest_eit_171_full.gif

The full-res 28.4 nm image (still a .gif) shows some nice limb brightening:
http://umbra.nascom.nasa.gov/eit/images/latest_eit_284_full.gif


Edited by LashL: 
Converted hotlinked images to links. Please see Rule 5.



Lots more images here.

Maybe someone with the relevant software, and experience - even MM - could take some of the science images, crop a representative part of a limb (a 30 degree slice, say), re-scale to a common scale (as necessary), and compare with the publicity, uncalibrated, "artistically enhanced" SDO .jpg image MM is so excited about (of course such comparisons won't tell us much about the radius - in km - of any approximately constant feature near the limb in any image, because ... well, why not?). Only if you've time on your hands of course.
 
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Then you have absolutely nothing to lose. Ready to bet?

This *SHOULD* be a no brainer. There's no possible way according to standard theory that the RD outline of the sphere will fit inside the chromosphere. It would defy all the laws of physics according to you. Do we have a bet?


A running difference image is a graph, like a pie chart or a bar graph, a sort of areal histogram. There is no such thing as a running difference outline of a sphere. A running difference graph is two dimensional so there can't possibly be a sphere in one. There is no chromosphere in a running difference graph. Nothing fits inside anything in a running difference graph other than maybe the pixels fit within the defined boundary. Relative to this discussion, nothing about the laws of physics can be proven or falsified by counting pixels in a running difference graph.

Your qualifications have been challenged and you have been unable to demonstrate that you are qualified to understand what a running difference image is, how one is made, why one is made, or what anything in one means. You are also unable to demonstrate that you are qualified to understand what "chromosphere" means as it is commonly used in the science of astrophysics.

Oh, I haven't said anything about the location of any pixels in any image defying all laws of physics, so you are lying again there.

Your argument has gone from simply nonsensical to some kind of bizarre and incessant badgering comprised of incoherent strings of words rambling on about a bet. You apparently can't even explain clearly what the bet is about. It seems like you're trying to say you've decided you're going to win a bet, on your terms, according to your judgment, and you're insulting and taunting everyone else in the conversation because they're not willing to play your juvenile game.

Consequently your qualifications to communicate in a sane, intelligent, rational way on the issue of solar physics are now being directly challenged. So far you have been unable to demonstrate that you are remotely qualified to do so. Your arguments are strings of senseless, incoherent sciency sounding words which, given the way you assemble them, lack any connection to reality. The ones which do form complete thoughts are mostly arguments from ignorance and incredulity, and in many cases as demonstrated by evidence, they are intentional distortions of legitimate science, strawmen, and bald faced lies.
 
I have been looking at this image, and I don't see the green line in this one:
http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/assets/img/firstlight/preview/composite20100330_4096.jpg

I think this is the same one MM linked to?
ETA:I agree it is a compression artifact.

I am way wrong, I have a different photo, it is a conspiracy I tell you!

ETA: Mine is different, it is the first with the AIA cameras.


Correct. The photo you linked is not the one Michael has been blathering about. It is the one very much like it that he has been willfully ignoring.
 
Of MM's green/dark image --

If the dark stuff is the iron and the green surface ring is "not iron, but glowing stuff ", how come I can see green stuff floating all over the dark stuff elsewhere?

Does it rain up there? Does the iron have great big rust holes in it, letting the green glow through from behind ? Would this mean there's green glowy stuff *behind* the iron?

I think we should be told.

<sorry>
 
Help with Rule 5.

As you can see, three of the images I posted - by enclosing in [ i m g ] tags - were automatically converted to links, with the explanation "Converted hotlinked images to links. Please see Rule 5."

Now the explanation of Rule 5 is (bold added):
"Hotlinking" is using the
tags to display an image from another website in a post. This uses the other site's bandwidth and is considered by many to be very impolite. Some website owners will go as far as changing the image to something offensive to punish people who do this. Some sites may allow hotlinking and even encourage it, especially image hosting sites, however it is up to the Member to ensure that is the case prior to using a hotlink to the content. It is not hotlinking to provide a link to content on another site.

It is not the responsibility of the moderator team to check up on website permissions. If you believe you have permission to hotlink to a website, you must provide evidence yourself.
The site itself says, among other things: "Access to full-resolution images has been freely available since 1998 January."

Is that sufficient to count for "permission to hotlink to a website"?

If not, what would be (wrt the EIT images)?

Finally, if this is an inappropriate place to ask such questions, where is the appropriate place?
 
Betting with Mozina II

So shall I put you down on the RD bet? You're willing to ante up your public opinion on the size of the RD disk seen in 171A at a long cadence? Tim?
I responded to this before you even posted the question. I have not changed my mind since then ...
Am I going to bet with you? Not a chance. Your "analysis" of the SDO images up to this point has been exceptionally stupid. I predict that it will continue to be equally stupid in the future. Just as you wildly misinterpret the SDO images today, so will you wildly misinterpret the SDO images in the future. You will see some fuzzy color somewhere in some image, wildly misinterpret it, and declare yourself the winner and the standard theory dead (as you have in fact done already several times with an equivalent level of stupidity). Since we know in advance that you will claim to have "won" the bet, quite regardless of what is actually in the images, why would anyone bother to bet with you?
 
Help with Rule 5.

As you can see, three of the images I posted - by enclosing in [ i m g ] tags - were automatically converted to links, with the explanation "Converted hotlinked images to links. Please see Rule 5."

Now the explanation of Rule 5 is (bold added):

The site itself says, among other things: "Access to full-resolution images has been freely available since 1998 January."

Is that sufficient to count for "permission to hotlink to a website"?

If not, what would be (wrt the EIT images)?

Finally, if this is an inappropriate place to ask such questions, where is the appropriate place?
There is a Forum Management thread but...
I would say that unless the forum sofware (or moderators) already know that a web site explicitly allows hotllinks to their images then the hotlinks will be converted to links. They are not going to look though an unknown web site to find out whether the site allows hotlinking. Thus hotlinking will be restricted to a small number of sites, e.g. maybe Flickr and other similiar sites.
 
It's not "complicated" and it's not "opaque" at all.
[qimg]http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/images/sdo/sd02.jpg[/qimg]

The "opaque" area is 4800Km under the chromosphere and the area you claim is "opaque" isn't.
Hmm...When you extract the green channel from that JPEG publicity image, so it's no longer partly hidden by the red, the (false color) green light appears to extend some distance out into space:
picture.php

If I weren't a complete idiot, I might think the (false color) green light is coming from above the photosphere, but is more visible near the limb because we're looking through a substantially greater cross-section of it at near-tangent lines of sight.
 
Can you cite the paper where Kosovichev states that "those loops are mass flows"

Kosovichev was right that those loops are mass flows, not solid objects.....
This sounds like a lie from Michael Mozina so:
First asked 3 May 2010
Michael Mozina
The only mention of Kosovichev in this thread and on your web site has been in connection with
  • the convection currents that destroy your iron crust fantasy*,
  • the existence of plasma stratification layer that you misinterpret as your crust fantasy and
  • debunking your delusion that the running difference images he generated show "rigid" structures under your "tsunami".
    "The consistent structures in the movie are caused by stationary flows in magnetic structures, sunspots and active regions. ..."
Can you cite the paper where Kosovichev states that "those loops are mass flows"?

FYI: Coronal loops are observed to involve a sort of "mass flow" but not what you think:
Corona
Coronal loops are the basic structures of the magnetic solar corona. These loops are the closed-magnetic flux cousins of the open-magnetic flux that can be found in coronal hole (polar) regions and the solar wind. Loops of magnetic flux well up from the solar body and fill with hot solar plasma. Due to the heightened magnetic activity in these coronal loop regions, coronal loops can often be the precursor to solar flares and coronal mass ejections (CMEs). Solar plasma feeding these structures is heated from under 6000 K to well over 1×106 K from the photosphere, through the transition region, and into the corona. Often, the solar plasma will fill these loops from one foot point and drain from the other (siphon flow due to a pressure difference, or asymmetric flow due to some other driver). This is known as chromospheric evaporation and chromospheric condensation respectively. There may also be symmetric flow from both loop foot points, causing a buildup of mass in the loop structure. The plasma may cool in this region creating dark filaments in the solar disk or prominences off the limb. Coronal loops may have lifetimes in the order of seconds (in the case of flare events), minutes, hours or days. Usually coronal loops lasting for long periods of time are known as steady state or quiescent coronal loops, where there is a balance in loop energy sources and sinks (example).
 
...Running difference images are star actors in the drama which is this thread, at least RD images of the Sun.

Would you, dear lurker, have guessed that RD images are a very useful tool in the hands of astronomers studying historical supernovae?

This recent Sky&Telescope article summarises how, using Cas A (a supernova remnant) as example.

... Puzzle for the day: how to explain the (one/three) stars which show in the RD image, as "craters" (i.e. they look all the world like small craters on the Moon do)?

(raises hand, loosens collar): the, ahh... (voice cracks)... umm... large stellar blob at about 8 o'clock in the 09/03/2008 image has been kind of squashed and spread out on top in the 09/14/2009 image (see the white crater's black "shadow" in the difference image: the crater shows where it's been squashed, the shadow where it's spread).

Do we conclude, from the existence of these "craters" that the sky is a solid surface, and that (some) stars are merely impact craters on it?

Yes?... (wets self)... I mean, no, dammit! (blushes) More likely some sort of gravitational lensing... possibly, anyway, I think, that is... I'm not really sure, though, heh (wipes brow, sits down, lowers head, begins sobbing uncontrollably). :blush:
 
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The site itself says, among other things: "Access to full-resolution images has been freely available since 1998 January."

Is that sufficient to count for "permission to hotlink to a website"?
There is a Forum Management thread but...
I would say that unless the forum sofware (or moderators) already know that a web site explicitly allows hotllinks to their images then the hotlinks will be converted to links. They are not going to look though an unknown web site to find out whether the site allows hotlinking. Thus hotlinking will be restricted to a small number of sites, e.g. maybe Flickr and other similiar sites.


If I may be of assistance...

Linking to NASA Web Sites

NASA Web sites are not copyrighted, and may be linked to from other Web sites, including individuals' personal Web sites, without explicit permission from NASA. However, such links may not explicitly or implicitly convey NASA's endorsement of commercial goods or services.

NASA images may be used as graphic "hot links" to NASA Web sites, provided they are used within the guidelines above. This permission does not extend to use of the NASA insignia, the retired NASA logotype or the NASA seal.

[Source]

Emphasis mine. Hotlinking of NASA imagery (as has been done in this, and similar threads) doesn't violate any rules.
 
Hmm...When you extract the green channel from that JPEG publicity image, so it's no longer partly hidden by the red, the (false color) green light appears to extend some distance out into space:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=475&pictureid=2959[/qimg]
If I weren't a complete idiot, I might think the (false color) green light is coming from above the photosphere, but is more visible near the limb because we're looking through a substantially greater cross-section of it at near-tangent lines of sight.


Yes, we have a winner! I told Michael at least as long ago as April 28th that separating the colors might be a good thing to do, you know, if he was going to claim to have analyzed that image in any detail.

I could help you out a bit here if you're not catching on, you know, having some expertise in graphics processing myself. You get started on your own and I'll let you know how well you're doing, okay? And although it's not where I found the most severe errors, I did look at the red, blue, and green color layers separately as part of my analysis. You might try that approach.


Someone with even a tiny bit of expertise in image analysis would have checked the individual colors within a few minutes of downloading the picture. Paying attention to this kind of stuff is taught in grade school science, at least it was back in the olden days when I was in grade school.

Here's a crop from about x820-1540 and y480-960 after separating the green from the non-compressed TIF version of that image...

sdo8201540x480960.jpg

... showing the same thing. This concern, among a few other concerns and some particular flaws in using this image as pixel by pixel evidence to support Michael's crackpot conjecture have now been addressed at least at some level by GlennB, Tim Thompson, Dancing David, ben m, Reality Check, DeiRenDopa, sol invictus, D'rok, Perpetual Student, Tubbythin, and probably some I missed. Here dasmiller almost gives it away and still Michael chose ignorance over truth...

Have you considered the possibility that the green strip is simply due to a misalignment of the source images?


And even Hellbound gets honorable mention for speaking up. Nobody is remaining soylent here...

IT'S PEOPLE!! THE GREEN LINES ARE PEOPLE!!!


Oh, Michael, have you found any of your other pixel counting errors yet? I told you I'd give you some pointers, you know, since I have some expertise in digital graphics analysis and you haven't demonstrated that you have any such qualifications. You get started and if you're on the right track, I'll help you along a bit, okay? :p
 
On Kristian Birkeland and Solar Models

Birkeland's model is the *ONLY* solar model I'm aware of that "predicted" that the iron lines start under the surface of the photosphere at about 4800KM.
Birkeland's model absolutely did no such thing. You have been asked dozens of times to substantiate that lie and you have been unable to do it. Take responsibility for your own crackpot conjecture and stop blaming the dead guy.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A00E0DA133BE633A25750C2A9649C946296D6CF
You are the single biggest liar that I have ever met on the internet.
I have not been able to find any record of Birkeland ever having explicitly modeled the Sun in any published paper. When pressed, Mozina finally provides us with a link to an article in the New York Times, a review by a reporter of a public lecture given by Birkeland. I have read the article. Here is a full, complete and exhaustive list of elements in the model, which Mozina claims to be documented by this article.
  1. The sun carries a net negative electric charge.
  2. The sun is at a potential of approximately 600,000,000 Volts.
  3. The sun emits both negatively and positively charged particles.
There you have it, the full and complete Birkeland model of the sun, as published by the New York Times. Mozina presents a detailed model of the sun for which he gives Birkeland full credit. The electric universe websites, like Thunderbolts, likewise credit Birkeland as the founder of their electric sun model. However, there is no published indication I can find of Birkeland ever presenting such a model of the sun. I suspect that Mozina cannot find any published record either, else he would have presented us with that science publication, rather than a newspaper article. If someone is lying here, it certainly seems far more likely to be Mozina than Gee Mack, considering the cold trail of this "Birkeland model". I think it's just Mozina and the other electric sun crackpots trying to borrow Birkeland's scientific credibility, since they have none of their own.

We notice constant reference to Birkeland, and his alleged model of the sun. Perhaps it is a good idea to say a few words about who Birkeland was, for the lurking crowd. Olaf Kristian Bernhard Birkeland was born in Kristiania, then the capital of Norway, on 13 December 1867 and died in Tokyo, Japan, on 15 June 1917. During the course of his career he was first to explain the true cause of auroral phenomena as streams of charged particles emitted by the sun, which we now recognize as the solar wind. He properly predicted the existence of electric currents aligned with the earth's magnetic field ("field aligned currents") which are now called by the proper name Birkeland currents (note that properly used, "Birkeland current" refers only to the field aligned currents in Earth's magnetic field that feed the aurorae and does not apply to field aligned currents in general). His theory of upper atmosphere electric current systems is his most important and most enduring scientific accomplishment.

Birkeland concentrated on aurorae and geomagnetic disturbances from about 1895 - 1917. Much of his work stems from the Norwegian Aurora Polaris Expedition, 1901-1902, which was documented in an extensive 2-volume report published in 1908 (volume 1) and 1913 (volume 2). During about 1903-1906 he concentrated on applied technology to raise money to fund his geomagnetic research, which remained his primary interest. He is credited with 88 scientific papers and 3 books, the largest of the books being about 800 pages over 2 volumes of the polar expedition. All of his work appears to concentrate on what we now call space physics, geomagnetism and geoelectricity. I can find no evidence of Birkeland ever publishing anything that could be considered a "model" of the sun. So it appears to me to be an adventure in false advertising at best, to credit Birkeland with the solar model presented by Mozina.

See Kristian Birkeland's pioneering investigations of geomagnetic disturbances; Egeland & Burke, History of Geo- and Space Sciences ("an open access journal"), Vol 1, 13-24, 12 Apr 2010. I had no problem downloading the PDF. Most of what I have put in the previous two paragraphs I lifted from this biography.

Mozina constantly references Birkeland as providing the definitive science of the sun. But note that Birkeland died 93 years ago, and most of his relevant work was done at or before 100 years ago. The later years of Birkeland's life overlap with the early work of Einstein and the origin of special and general relativity, in 1905 & 1915 respectively. But quantum mechanics really did not flourish until about 1930, mid 1920's at the earliest. It was not until the 1930's that the process of nuclear fusion was finally worked out, as a power source for stars. And the discipline of plasma physics really does not become recognizable until the detailed studies of ionized gases begins in the 1930's. Nuclear physics, quantum mechanics and plasma physics are critical scientific disciplines required to understand any star, obviously including the sun. None of these sciences was available during Birkeland's lifetime. So, even if it were true that Birkeland had explicitly created a scientific model of the sun, it would be only of historical importance, but certainly not scientifically useful. On the other hand, electromagnetism was very well developed already during Birkeland's lifetime, and all of his works along the lines of space physics and geoelectricity has proven to be robust and reliable.

It is my explicit position that Birkeland and all of his work are irrelevant to the science of the sun today. We have powerful observational tools Birkeland could only dream of, and we have scientific disciplines developed in the post-Birkeland years that radically alter earlier ideas about the physics & evolution of the stars and the sun. Mozina only credits Birkeland for the purpose of deflecting all discussion into vague historical avenues, and away from any modern science. Remember that Mozina always speaks derisively of mathematics, totally overlooking the key role of mathematics in modern science.

Constant historical ramblings about Birkeland, constant derision of all modern science, and a total devotion to looking at press release pictures rather than science data are sure signs of a crackpot at work. The ideas Mozina presents are useless & baseless, make no sense at all, have nothing to do with anything Birkeland ever did, and should not be treated as ideas that deserve respect in the slightest at this time.
 
I have not been able to find any record of Birkeland ever having explicitly modeled the Sun in any published paper. When pressed, Mozina finally provides us with a link to an article in the New York Times, a review by a reporter of a public lecture given by Birkeland. I have read the article. Here is a full, complete and exhaustive list of elements in the model, which Mozina claims to be documented by this article.
  1. The sun carries a net negative electric charge.
  2. The sun is at a potential of approximately 600,000,000 Volts.
  3. The sun emits both negatively and positively charged particles.
There you have it, the full and complete Birkeland model of the sun, as published by the New York Times. Mozina presents a detailed model of the sun for which he gives Birkeland full credit. The electric universe websites, like Thunderbolts, likewise credit Birkeland as the founder of their electric sun model. However, there is no published indication I can find of Birkeland ever presenting such a model of the sun. I suspect that Mozina cannot find any published record either, else he would have presented us with that science publication, rather than a newspaper article. If someone is lying here, it certainly seems far more likely to be Mozina than Gee Mack, considering the cold trail of this "Birkeland model". I think it's just Mozina and the other electric sun crackpots trying to borrow Birkeland's scientific credibility, since they have none of their own.

We notice constant reference to Birkeland, and his alleged model of the sun. Perhaps it is a good idea to say a few words about who Birkeland was, for the lurking crowd. Olaf Kristian Bernhard Birkeland was born in Kristiania, then the capital of Norway, on 13 December 1867 and died in Tokyo, Japan, on 15 June 1917. During the course of his career he was first to explain the true cause of auroral phenomena as streams of charged particles emitted by the sun, which we now recognize as the solar wind. He properly predicted the existence of electric currents aligned with the earth's magnetic field ("field aligned currents") which are now called by the proper name Birkeland currents (note that properly used, "Birkeland current" refers only to the field aligned currents in Earth's magnetic field that feed the aurorae and does not apply to field aligned currents in general). His theory of upper atmosphere electric current systems is his most important and most enduring scientific accomplishment.

Birkeland concentrated on aurorae and geomagnetic disturbances from about 1895 - 1917. Much of his work stems from the Norwegian Aurora Polaris Expedition, 1901-1902, which was documented in an extensive 2-volume report published in 1908 (volume 1) and 1913 (volume 2). During about 1903-1906 he concentrated on applied technology to raise money to fund his geomagnetic research, which remained his primary interest. He is credited with 88 scientific papers and 3 books, the largest of the books being about 800 pages over 2 volumes of the polar expedition. All of his work appears to concentrate on what we now call space physics, geomagnetism and geoelectricity. I can find no evidence of Birkeland ever publishing anything that could be considered a "model" of the sun. So it appears to me to be an adventure in false advertising at best, to credit Birkeland with the solar model presented by Mozina.

See Kristian Birkeland's pioneering investigations of geomagnetic disturbances; Egeland & Burke, History of Geo- and Space Sciences ("an open access journal"), Vol 1, 13-24, 12 Apr 2010. I had no problem downloading the PDF. Most of what I have put in the previous two paragraphs I lifted from this biography.

Mozina constantly references Birkeland as providing the definitive science of the sun. But note that Birkeland died 93 years ago, and most of his relevant work was done at or before 100 years ago. The later years of Birkeland's life overlap with the early work of Einstein and the origin of special and general relativity, in 1905 & 1915 respectively. But quantum mechanics really did not flourish until about 1930, mid 1920's at the earliest. It was not until the 1930's that the process of nuclear fusion was finally worked out, as a power source for stars. And the discipline of plasma physics really does not become recognizable until the detailed studies of ionized gases begins in the 1930's. Nuclear physics, quantum mechanics and plasma physics are critical scientific disciplines required to understand any star, obviously including the sun. None of these sciences was available during Birkeland's lifetime. So, even if it were true that Birkeland had explicitly created a scientific model of the sun, it would be only of historical importance, but certainly not scientifically useful. On the other hand, electromagnetism was very well developed already during Birkeland's lifetime, and all of his works along the lines of space physics and geoelectricity has proven to be robust and reliable.

It is my explicit position that Birkeland and all of his work are irrelevant to the science of the sun today. We have powerful observational tools Birkeland could only dream of, and we have scientific disciplines developed in the post-Birkeland years that radically alter earlier ideas about the physics & evolution of the stars and the sun. Mozina only credits Birkeland for the purpose of deflecting all discussion into vague historical avenues, and away from any modern science. Remember that Mozina always speaks derisively of mathematics, totally overlooking the key role of mathematics in modern science.

Constant historical ramblings about Birkeland, constant derision of all modern science, and a total devotion to looking at press release pictures rather than science data are sure signs of a crackpot at work. The ideas Mozina presents are useless & baseless, make no sense at all, have nothing to do with anything Birkeland ever did, and should not be treated as ideas that deserve respect in the slightest at this time.

The above took some time and effort to put together, and is quite well done.
Thank you!
Without the advances in knowledge about the quantum world, nuclear physics, relativity, all the observational tools and technology for analysis, how plausible could it be that a 19th century person could fathom the workings of the sun? Bikleland could no more understand solar physics than Archimedes.
 
The above took some time and effort to put together, and is quite well done.
Thank you!

Seconded! Many thanks!

Tim, does this mean that the "terrella"---the thing Michael always juxtaposes with photos of the Sun to argue that Birkeland had the truth about solar flares---was only ever meant to be a model of the Earth and aurorae?
 
Seconded! Many thanks!

Tim, does this mean that the "terrella"---the thing Michael always juxtaposes with photos of the Sun to argue that Birkeland had the truth about solar flares---was only ever meant to be a model of the Earth and aurorae?

Since the word "terrella" means little earth, that would make sense -- otherwise he might have wanted to call it a "solella."
 
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I have not been able to find any record of Birkeland ever having explicitly modeled the Sun in any published paper. When pressed, Mozina finally provides us with a link to an article in the New York Times, a review by a reporter of a public lecture given by Birkeland. I have read the article. Here is a full, complete and exhaustive list of elements in the model, which Mozina claims to be documented by this article.

[...]

Constant historical ramblings about Birkeland, constant derision of all modern science, and a total devotion to looking at press release pictures rather than science data are sure signs of a crackpot at work. The ideas Mozina presents are useless & baseless, make no sense at all, have nothing to do with anything Birkeland ever did, and should not be treated as ideas that deserve respect in the slightest at this time.


Thanks very much, Tim, for the research and analysis. I read The Northern Lights, the Lucy Jago biography of Kristian Birkeland several years ago. There was barely a mention of Birkeland's solar research. Other than as it related to the aurora, his concern for the construction and mechanics of the Sun was described essentially as a passing interest.

I've also read at one time or other, pieces and parts of Birkeland's Aurora Polaris Expedition which can be found online. That amounts to a lot of cherry picked and seriously misunderstood excerpts posted by Electric Sun and Electric Universe cranks. And even in all that, there is nothing that might be considered a solar model.

His terrella experiments were almost exclusively related to the Earth and the aurora borealis/australis. He dabbled in some ideas about sunspots and coronal activity on the Sun, and Saturn's rings. Other than his curiosity about sunspots, I've never seen anything that would lead a reasonable, English speaking person to believe he spent any significant time or effort thinking about the surface of the Sun at all.

As far as Birkeland's terrella, the realistic comparison of that to a "solar model" would be like using a Revell plastic model I built of the RMS Titanic to determine how the real article was built.

The claim that Michael's misunderstanding is somehow Birkeland's model is indeed a dishonest distraction and an apparent attempt to pass off the blame for his wholly failed conjecture onto a dead guy who can't even defend himself against the defamation.
 
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