Was Dick Oliver confused about what he heard on 9/11

[I Ratant]

...


Do we have any other no-jammoniusers in da house?

.
It is a relief sincerely sought after.
When oh when...

 

[twinstead]

What I find delightfully funny is that we don't even need to rely on eye witnesses in this case. We have actual videos of the impacts-from many angles from many cameras when we are talking about the second plane-- that unambiguously show planes crashing into the buildings.

 

[Macgyver1968]

So, in that distance and in that time, no one, and I mean no one in the Dick Oliver video, either seen walking or heard to say what they had experienced thought to mention the possibility of a widebody jetliner, or, indeed, a jet of any kind.

Not one persona, Macgyver.

What can you do to elaborate on this theme?

Well...the rest of that word salad I couldn't make out what point you were trying to make. However I understood this question.

None? What about Oliver's camera man would said "sounded like a plane crash" What about the 2 women on the side walk who stop and turn around and look toward the towers? What about the woman in blue who stops and looks up and to the right in the direction that plane flew by.

And why won't you answer simple questions about your theory of events? You blame the hole on a DEW, then won't answer questions about it. You seem to be so keen on interpreting peoples thoughts, why not use that skill with the "perps"? You claim they planted pyrotechnics in the towers to simulate the plane's explosion....guess what they use in Hollywood to make those big ass explosions?.....ready?....gasoline! Yep..they call them "turkey bags"..its a plastic bag filled with a measure of gasoline or other accelerate and placed with a small piece of det cord under it. The det cord blows up and atomizes the gas and it makes a nice big impressive fire ball. For bigger explosions they sometimes use many 55 gallon drums of gas. So where did they put all those barrels in the trade center? If they went to the trouble of setting up all of these pyrotechnics just to simulate an explosion...why not just use real explosives, and forgo the DEW...then they wouldn't risk exposing their super-secret weapon that every army in the world would give their right nut to have?

 

[I Ratant]

What kind of idiot would use eye witnesses who didn't see the planes as evidence there were no planes, all the while totally ignoring those who DID?

.
That is one of them there "Rhetoricals", innit?
We see at length, very great length, and quoted very great lengths, the archtype of the sought-for idiot right here.

 

[Oystein]

I just had to quote this section of jammonius post for the benefit of anyone that has him on ignore. This has got to be the most disjointed attempt at science I've ever seen. It also says volumes about his thought process.

Thanks for the Sunday LOL jammonius!

I don't have him technically on ignore, I just ignore him more or less. Thanks for this .. whatever. Uhm... Whaddiddy say again?

 

[sylvan8798]

There's still no balcony in the photo you posted.

So, umm, just to be clear and all, are you claiming that the building at 99 Hudson has no balconies on the 14th floor? Also, are you claiming that there are subway grates in the pictures you posted near City Hall Park?

Cause this building, and those "grates" still exists as far as I know, and it would not be out of the question for some poster here to take some better pictures of them and post them here....

 

[A W Smith]

The fact of the matter is that there is a strong and demonstrable correlation as follows:

The closer the witness was to the scene, the more likely the witness was to say they SAW AND HEARD AN EXPLOSION AND NOT A PLANE.

Already covered this in the AAH thread. If the aircraft is heading directly toward you, the engine exhaust is facing away from you. Also the Doppler effect and the fact that those on the scene were in a cavern of skyscrapers. AGAIN they were not in any position to see the planes until they were directly overhead. And by the timed the roar sound traveled down to them from directly overhead, They would have missed the plane impact and only seen the fireball. This video makes my point clearly, note the slow reaction of the person directly over the camera.

Consider, by way of example, David Handschuh, right underneath Tower 2 and Asst. Commissioner Stephen Gregory, West Street between Liberty and Albany.

Your plane spotters were, for the most part, in no position to see a plane. This includes the fantasy ones as well as the first responders. By "fantasy ones" I mean Cardona Rivera, Murtagh and Freidl. A search of the 503 Task Force responders will show that there are as more who reliably report no plane than there are who reliably report a plane. Many of those who say they saw or heard a plane use the word "plane" in describing the sound only of the explosion.

plane witnesses thrown under the bus as usual

Let me double check for accuracy of understanding. AWSmith, are you seeking in the above speculation to provide an excuse as to why almost no one described accuratly hearing a Boeing 767 screaming along at, as you say, 806ft/sec. 1000ft above sea level?

I explained above Andrew, Of course they heard it. but by the time they looked toward the location of the sound. In the case of the Dick Oliver video almost 1800 feet perpendicular to flight 11's path, the sound takes 1.6 seconds to reach them from the sounds location at that time. So they are looking at a location that is 1290 feet behind the plane!

If that is what you are doing, then you are deluding yourself. A widebody jet screaming along at that great rate of speed would have created an environmental nightmare that people where Dick Oliver was located, including Dick Oliver, would have noticed in no uncertain terms.

By the time they noticed, the aircraft was nothing but shrapnel and a fireball. YOU Andrew Johnson, Are deluding yourself. You have too much invested in this to turn back. Web pages, talks, Web interviews, your no planer "conspiracy cred" if you will. You have lost the handle to your fantasy by coming here to the JREF, Everybody now sees the deluded fool that you are. There are no lurkers here to come to your rescue and agree with you. When they do in fact post disagreeing, you invoke the "no true Scotsman" logical; fallacy. For your grand "psyop" to exist you would reach the inflationary model of conspiracy theories.

 

[jammonius]

Posters / Lurkers

This is another stellar example of LOGJAM thinking. Here we have Jim Ryan, who is given nothing but a live shot from several blocks away of a smoldering gaping hole through a clearing. Of course he doesn't see an airplane. But was does Ryan say about it a just few minutes later, Hmmmmm?



What do we see here? A man putting together the pieces and coming to the correct conclusion.

The above is yet another exercise in denial and in rationalization and Lurkers will be able to see that.

By the way Lurkers, I understand you might have a preference for sending personal messages (PMs) not just to me but to posters of your choosing. That is fine.

However, I do wish some of you would just go ahead and post up what you saw and heard on 9/11. Battalion Chief Stephen King should be your role model. He had the courage to go against the common storyline simply by being truthful. And, so did Sgt. DeVona in reporting that what people said they saw and heard was "AN EXPLOSION."

Yes, I know a lot of you want to remain anonymous and do not want it said that all you saw was smoke, etc., but please feel free to post what you actually saw and what you actually heard.

Now, back to AJM's obfuscation by way of oversimplification. Boy, I'll tell you what. One certainly wouldn't want the posters around here to sit in on, let alone participate in, any sort of investigation where it was important to find out what happened, would one?

OK, as to Our Jim Ryan, his status as FIRST NO PLANER is actually pretty good when the concept of "first" is considered from the timing angle. He was a NO PLANER at 8:50AM that is pretty early, I'd say.

Once again, here's what he said:

"...If that's the case, where's the plane, I would ask? I don't see it in that live picture..."

Our Jim Ryan, candidate for FIRST NO PLANER

It is to be recalled that Our Jim Ryan based his analysis upon being able to see the Dick Oliver live feed, and not the set piece used in the PSYOP.

There's really a dramatic difference in picture quality, so much so that one has to wonder why was the sky so clear in Dick Oliver's camera, and also commented upon by Dick Oliver as being very clear, and so blurry, bleak and indeterminate in the network feed?

I'll venture an interpretation of the data that follows: The psyop didn't want people to be able to see what was going on.

Behold:

What does someone like jammonius see? The beginning of the PSYOP taking hold. [/QUOTE]

Very funny

So now, just for the record we have:

• Dick Oliver - Status of "no plane" argument: Destroyed. Said he heard an airplane.
  
• Jim Ryan - Status of "no plane" argument: Destroyed. See above quote.
  
• Battalion Chief King - Status of "no plane" argument: Destroyed. Was in fire house when first plane hit, was in WTC1 when second plane hit.
  
• Our Lady of the Subway -Status of "no plane" argument: Destroyed. Was in a PATH car, several stories underneath the World Trade Center when the first plane hit.

The above declarations are nothing more and nothing less than:

The witnesses I have quoted all stand as having been validly interpreted.

That's some witness list we have here, damned near convinced myself just typing this up.

Well, we know it doesn't take much to convince you of the common storyline; any old blurry, shadowy image will do and any witness located more than a mile away, on the other side of town is sufficient for you.

Quick AJM, which picture of the North Tower posted above is clearer to you?

Let's see if you can at least get one thing right.


Here's hoping

 

[Gorgonian]

Yes, I know a lot of you want to remain anonymous and do not want it said that all you saw was smoke, etc., but please feel free to post what you actually saw and what you actually heard.[/COLOR][/B]

No lurkers supporting you publically, so now you allude to the idea that they are responding, but only privately. lol

The above declarations are nothing more and nothing less than:

The witnesses I have quoted all stand as having been validly interpreted.

Nothing less than straws? What does that even mean? If you mean strawmen, you apparently don't know what a strawman is, because, well, no they aren't.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

'nuff said...

 

[TJM]

Now, back to AJM's obfuscation by way of oversimplification. Boy, I'll tell you what. One certainly wouldn't want the posters around here to sit in on, let alone participate in, any sort of investigation where it was important to find out what happened, would one?

OK, as to Our Jim Ryan, his status as FIRST NO PLANER is actually pretty good when the concept of "first" is considered from the timing angle. He was a NO PLANER at 8:50AM that is pretty early, I'd say.

Once again, here's what he said:

"...If that's the case, where's the plane, I would ask? I don't see it in that live picture..."

Then why don't you address what he said 20 minutes later, when more information became available?

<Addressing Dick Oliver, who just specualted on a missile attack> Ollie, uh, I must say we have an eyewitness who said that is was a large plane that crashed first, and then as we were watching the live picture in the studio, we saw, we saw a plane crash into the other tower of the World Trade Center and just to be sure.. <rolls video>

• Dick Oliver - Status of "no plane" argument: Destroyed. Said he heard an airplane.
• Jim Ryan - Status of "no plane" argument: Destroyed. See above quote.
• Battalion Chief King - Status of "no plane" argument: Destroyed. Was in fire house when first plane hit, was in WTC1 when second plane hit.
• Our Lady of the Subway -Status of "no plane" argument: Destroyed. Was in a PATH car, several stories underneath the World Trade Center when the first plane hit.

Have nothing to do with the low resolution screen grab you posted. Doesn't 9/11 truth have HD and graphic cards yet?

 

[Oystein]

...
The witnesses I have quoted all stand as having been validly interpreted.
...

Can you remind us, very quickly, where Our Lady of the Path Train was when she heard (I quote) "a huge explosion sound", please?

 

[TJM]

Can you remind us, very quickly, where Our Lady of the Path Train was when she heard (I quote) "a huge explosion sound", please?

I think she was in, because everything was out.

 

[sylvan8798]

So, umm, just to be clear and all, are you claiming that the building at 99 Hudson has no balconies on the 14th floor? Also, are you claiming that there are subway grates in the pictures you posted near City Hall Park?

Cause this building, and those "grates" still exists as far as I know, and it would not be out of the question for some poster here to take some better pictures of them and post them here....

bump

 

[sylvan8798]

No lurkers supporting you publically, so now you allude to the idea that they are responding, but only privately. lol


Nothing less than straws? What does that even mean? If you mean strawmen, you apparently don't know what a strawman is, because, well, no they aren't.

I think maybe he means grasping at straws...

 

[sylvan8798]

By the way Lurkers, I understand you might have a preference for sending personal messages (PMs) not just to me but to posters of your choosing. That is fine.

However, I do wish some of you would just go ahead and post up what you saw and heard on 9/11.

Are you implying that some of the lurkers here have actually pm'd you with stories contradicting the "official version"? Really? I'm not buying it.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Further, Our Lady PT reports that paper and debris were coming out; PAPER. That report is not at all consistent with a widebody jetliner crash @ 500mph+/-.

Please explain why paper is not expected when an OFFICE building full of PAPER files (Every office I have ever worked in is full of paper even these days). Have you ever worked in an office? Please list all assumptions made and show all working.

As to the claim of DEW, some posters may have noticed that I have also said what happened was a psyop that included pyrotechnical aspects. The floating of paper within the fireballs, as seen above, and also as seen in images of the second explosion are consistent with pyrotechnical displays.

I've never seen a pyrotechnical display with papers.........please name one.

Another element of pyrotechics is the fake smoke. A number of first responder firefighters report that what they thought was smoke actually wasn't. One famous firefighter who commented on the lack of smoke was Our Lt. William Walsh.

[/QUOTE]

Fake smoke??????? How do you fake smoke????? Lt Walsh IIRC correctly was inside the building on only the 20th floor when he made that comment. A what a fireman regards as "smoke" (as in requiring breathing apparatus) might be quite a different magnitude than a layman's use of the term.

 

[Oystein]

Please explain why paper is not expected when an OFFICE building full of PAPER files (Every office I have ever worked in is full of paper even these days). Have you ever worked in an office? Please list all assumptions made salad ingredients and show all working tossing.

Fixed that fer ya!

 

[TJM]

Further, Our Lady PT reports that paper and debris were coming out; PAPER. That report is not at all consistent with a widebody jetliner crash @ 500mph+/-.

Sorry I missed that one. First let me say this :



Forward to around the 2 minute mark. You've already seen this before, jammonius, time for a reminder I see.



It's very possible that the planes could've been carrying mail, I'm not sure. I never thought I'd encounter somebody who'd question why an office building would contain paper so I never looked into that, so there you go jammonius. Another source of paper.

 

[dafydd]

No lurkers supporting you publically, so now you allude to the idea that they are responding, but only privately. lol


Nothing less than straws? What does that even mean? If you mean strawmen, you apparently don't know what a strawman is, because, well, no they aren't.

I don't believe that any lurkers have contacted Jammonious privately with messages of support.If any of you have,could you confirm it here?