Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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RWVBWL said:
I believe that the defense for Raffaele Sollecito plans to bring up that Rudy Guede had an accomplice with him during appeal.

Reading something about Alessandra Formica beofre that stuck in my mind, I dug this up:
Date: 3/26/2009 Title: "He was not Rudy" on Perugia Shock

"It was an instant for Alessandra Formica and her boyfriend.
At about 22:30 of November 1, they are descending the stairs of via della Pergola that lead to viale S.Antonio, where their car is parked and where the cottage is. Suddenly a guy who walks in the rush, coming up, bumps into them and runs away. They wouldn't know in that moment but that man could be a murderer.
A few days later Alessandra will hear of what happened in that cottage and will go to the police. That's how people become witnesses, real witnesses, not buffoons seduced by unscrupulous provincial scribblers.
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Interesting. Is this woman going to be called as a witness in the appeal? Why wasn't she called as a witness during the original trial?
 
Bob the Donkey writes:

1) Rudy's footprints don't reach all the way to Meredith's room. Did he jump from her door to the front of the hallway?

You are asking a good question and applying the right kind of critical thought, but I would encourage you to apply it to all the evidence, not just the evidence against Rudy.

In fact, Rudy's shoe prints, made with blood on the sole of his right shoe, did form a coherent trail. They were faint but visible without luminol or any enhancing reagent. They started inside the room, near the foot of Meredith's bed, they extended into the hallway, and they ran down the corridor, becoming fainter with each successive step. DNA tests showed that they were made with Meredith's blood.

The luminol footprints in the corridor, however, formed no trail. There was one between the bathroom door and Meredith's door with the toes pointing toward Meredith's door. Rinaldi says that was made by Amanda. There were two right footprints, side by side, just outside Amanda's door, with the toes pointing toward the kitchen and exit. Rinaldi says one of them was made by Raffaele. No one has explained how they fit into the crime, why they don't form a pattern, or why no similar prints were found inside Meredith's room. DNA tests revealed no biological trace in these bare footprints.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Thanks again.

A few points:

1) Rudy's footprints don't reach all the way to Meredith's room. Did he jump from her door to the front of the hallway?

2) There are very few footprints between Rudy's and the bathroom. Is it unreasonable to suggest that the floor was cleaned between the hallway and bathroom - i.e. in front of Meredith and Amanda's room, but not all the way out the front? The thought being that Amanda and Raffaele could have cleaned the hallway where they remembered they had been - it would explain the bathmat footprint being Raffaele's, the distinct lack of footprints in front of Meredith and Amanda's room, the importance to the duo of the mop...
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Sorry, I am very pressed for time this morning. Here are a couple of quick notes.

There is a shoe print set in blood right outside the bathroom door. It would have been very difficult if not impossible to clean around that print without disturbing it. There is also dust on the floor in the hall. Some of the dust is from kicking in Meredith's door. Plaster from the wall broke free and landed on the floor. Further inspection of the floor shows that there was dust present that was not related to the broken door that should have been wiped up if any clean up had been preformed.

There is a lot of talk about the lack of shoe prints from Rudy going from the bedroom to the bathroom.

We will never know for sure exactly what he did. With the evidence that we have, it appears that Rudy went into the bath room to wash blood off of his shoe. If the blood was on the top of his shoe he would look down and think about cleaning it off. If blood was on the bottom of his show we probably would not have cared.

He went into the bathroom, removed his shoe and rinsed it off in the bidet. That left a small streak of blood in the bidet.

When his shoe was off, he made one footprint on the bathmat in bloody water.

He put his shoe back on, went back into Meredith's room, covered her with the duvet, went through her purse, left the receipt, took what he wanted from the purse and left.

When he was leaving, he stepped into Meredith's blood and tracked it out the front door.

No clean up, not hopping around, no stretch of the imagination. This is a very realistic view of what happened.

I have always wondered how anyone who thought a clean up had occurred could explain why Amanda and Raffaele would be so perfect in cleaning up every single foot print or shoe print in the hall and Meredith's room but they would neglect to run the water in the sink or run some water in the bidet. They meticulously cleaned the entire apartment except for the bathroom? Why would they leave a footprint of Raffaele's visible in the bathroom?

The prosecution's theory requires a lot of imagination.
 
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Bruce Fisher said:
Sorry, I am very pressed for time this morning. Here are a couple of quick notes.

There is a shoe print set in blood right outside the bathroom door. It would have been very difficult if not impossible to clean around that print without disturbing it. There is also dust on the floor in the hall. Some of the dust is from kicking in Meredith's door. Plaster from the wall broke free and landed on the floor. Further inspection of the floor shows that there was dust present that was not related to the broken door that should have been wiped up if any clean up had been preformed.

There is a lot of talk about the lack of shoe prints from Rudy going from the bedroom to the bathroom.

We will never know for sure exactly what he did. With the evidence that we have, it appears that Rudy went into the bath room to wash blood off of his shoe. If the blood was on the top of his shoe he would look down and think about cleaning it off. If blood was on the bottom of his show we probably would not have cared.

He went into the bathroom, removed his shoe and rinsed it off in the bidet. That left a small streak of blood in the bidet.

When his shoe was off, he made one footprint on the bathmat in bloody water.

He put his shoe back on, went back into Meredith's room, covered her with the duvet, went through her purse, left the receipt, took what he wanted from the purse and left.

When he was leaving, he stepped into Meredith's blood and tracked it out the front door.

No clean up, not hopping around, no stretch of the imagination. This is a very realistic view of what happened.

I have always wondered how anyone who thought a clean up had occurred could explain why Amanda and Raffaele would be so perfect in cleaning up every single foot print or shoe print in the hall and Meredith's room but they would neglect to run the water in the sink or run some water in the bidet. They meticulously cleaned the entire apartment except for the bathroom? Why would they leave a footprint of Raffaele's visible in the bathroom?

The prosecution's theory requires a lot of imagination.
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Charlie: I do apply that kind of critical thinking to all the evidence. That's exactly why I lean toward Amanda and Raffaele were involved.
Not one person has been able to present a plausible scenario that matches all the evidence. Nor has anyone been able to sufficiently refute the evidence that points toward Amanda and Raffaele (yes, DNA contamination can occur. However, unless a plausible contamination route is defined for this case, we cannot just assume contamination because we don't like the test results. Same goes for the fake break-in. There is far too much evidence that the rock wasn't thrown from outside, a distinct lack of Guede's presence in Filomena's room, a rather unburglarized room, etc to believe it was anything more than a setup.)


Bruce, your site only shows the 6 footprints from Guede stretching outside the hallway to the front door. You might want to update that to show all the footprints.

If Rudy had enough blood on his shoe to leave a footprint at the bathroom entrance, or enough blood on his shoes to be concerned, why was there no bloody footprint trail to the bathroom?

And I've suggestsed before that Amanda and Raffaele were interrupted by the Postal Police before they could clean the bathroom.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Charlie: I do apply that kind of critical thinking to all the evidence. That's exactly why I lean toward Amanda and Raffaele were involved.
Not one person has been able to present a plausible scenario that matches all the evidence. Nor has anyone been able to sufficiently refute the evidence that points toward Amanda and Raffaele (yes, DNA contamination can occur. However, unless a plausible contamination route is defined for this case, we cannot just assume contamination because we don't like the test results. Same goes for the fake break-in. There is far too much evidence that the rock wasn't thrown from outside, a distinct lack of Guede's presence in Filomena's room, a rather unburglarized room, etc to believe it was anything more than a setup.)


Bruce, your site only shows the 6 footprints from Guede stretching outside the hallway to the front door. You might want to update that to show all the footprints.

If Rudy had enough blood on his shoe to leave a footprint at the bathroom entrance, or enough blood on his shoes to be concerned, why was there no bloody footprint trail to the bathroom?

And I've suggestsed before that Amanda and Raffaele were interrupted by the Postal Police before they could clean the bathroom.
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The shoe print that was visible in the hall was part of the pattern of shoe prints that went right out the front door.

Like I said above, after he went into the bathroom, He went back into Meredith's room, put the duvet over Meredith, went through the purse, left the receipt, took what he wanted from the purse and left.

When he left Meredith's room, he stepped in blood and tracked it out the front door.

Your theory about about Amanda and Raffaele being surprised by the postal police has already been refuted. Raffaele called the police before the postal police arrived. Why would Raffaele call the police if they weren't finished with the clean up effort as you describe?

The truth is, there was no clean up. Amanda and Raffaele were not surprised by the arrival of the police.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/garage.html

We can talk more about the break-in and the contamination but let's stay on the topic of the shoe prints. This is very important. The fact that Raffaele called the police before the postal police arrived is also very important.

Raffaele's call was not the action of a guilty person. He wanted the police to come to the cottage.
 
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43degreesNorth said:
Or maybe in the dark when cleaning by low light all the blood traces were not visible?
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In the dark and low light as you describe, Amanda and Raffaele were able to meticulously clean up every single footprint or shoe print that belonged to them in the hall without disturbing any of Rudy's prints?

This scenario is very unlikely.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
The shoe print that was visible in the hall was part of the pattern of shoe prints that went right out the front door.

Like I said above, after he went into the bathroom, He went back into Meredith's room, put the duvet over Meredith, went through the purse, left the receipt, took what he wanted from the purse and left.

When he left Meredith's room, he stepped in blood and tracked it out the front door.

Your theory about about Amanda and Raffaele being surprised by the postal police has already been refuted. Raffaele called the police before the postal police arrived. Why would Raffaele call the police if they weren't finished with the clean up effort as you describe?

The truth is, there was no clean up. Amanda and Raffaele were not surprised by the arrival of the police.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/garage.html

We can talk more about the break-in and the contamination but let's stay on the topic of the shoe prints. This is very important. The fact that Raffaele called the police before the postal police arrived is also very important.

Raffaele's call was not the action of a guilty person. He wanted the police to come to the cottage.
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Where are the footprints in front of Amanda's room?

And it is very much debatable, at this point, when the Police were called by Raffaele. I have not seen a definitive argument one way or the other.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
In the dark and low light as you describe, Amanda and Raffaele were able to meticulously clean up every single footprint or shoe print that belonged to them in the hall without disturbing any of Rudy's prints?

This scenario is very unlikely.
Click to expand...

Not if they stuck to cleaning up just the hallway ;)

Unless, the diagram on your website is erroneous...
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Not if they stuck to cleaning up just the hallway ;)

Unless, the diagram on your website is erroneous...
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I do not follow your comment. Please explain.

There is no possible way that Amanda and Raffaele could have cleaned up their prints in the hall without disturbing the prints from Rudy.
 
Bob the Donkey writes:

And I've suggestsed before that Amanda and Raffaele were interrupted by the Postal Police before they could clean the bathroom.

I've encountered that theory many times. But there are a couple of problems. First, Amanda called Filomena and told her about the blood in the bathroom before the postals arrived, which doesn't make sense if she was planning to clean away this evidence. Second, someone at Raffaele's apartment used his computer to check email and David Johnsrud's Facebook page at 12:20 pm, consistent with Amanda's claim that she returned to the apartment and then walked back to the cottage with Raffaele. Third, when the postals arrived, Raffaele and Amanda were standing around outside, not busy cleaning anything.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Where are the footprints in front of Amanda's room?

And it is very much debatable, at this point, when the Police were called by Raffaele. I have not seen a definitive argument one way or the other.
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You haven't seen a definitive argument either way? Then why do you use the theory that Amanda and Raffaele were surprised to explain why the bathroom wasn't cleaned up?
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
Bob the Donkey writes:

And I've suggestsed before that Amanda and Raffaele were interrupted by the Postal Police before they could clean the bathroom.

I've encountered that theory many times. But there are a couple of problems. First, Amanda called Filomena and told her about the blood in the bathroom before the postals arrived, which doesn't make sense if she was planning to clean away this evidence. Second, someone at Raffaele's apartment used his computer to check email and David Johnsrud's Facebook page at 12:20 pm, consistent with Amanda's claim that she returned to the apartment and then walked back to the cottage with Raffaele. Third, when the postals arrived, Raffaele and Amanda were standing around outside, not busy cleaning anything.
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This is part of the problem. When did she tell Filomena about the blood and where was she when she did that? IN her first call to Filomena she said she was still at the cottage, but I don't think she mentioned the blood then. She and RS went to the cottage together, so if he was at home at 12:20, so was she. So what time did they arrive at the cottage? Seems to me that they must have just got there when the PP arrived: And the fact that the mop was in the entry might tend to support that. In that case there is no reason to suppose they had finished the clean up: it is possible that they were going to finish off any stuff they missed in the dark

Tis all speculation: I want to see the report which should have far more detail
 
Bruce Fisher said:
We will never know for sure exactly what he did. With the evidence that we have, it appears that Rudy went into the bath room to wash blood off of his shoe. If the blood was on the top of his shoe he would look down and think about cleaning it off. If blood was on the bottom of his show we probably would not have cared.
Click to expand...

Why would he go and wash blood off his shoe and then go back and get more on it? That does not make a lot of sense to me

He went into the bathroom, removed his shoe and rinsed it off in the bidet. That left a small streak of blood in the bidet.
Click to expand...

Why would he remove his shoe if he was washing it in the bidet?

When his shoe was off, he made one footprint on the bathmat in bloody water.
Click to expand...

It isn't his footprint.

He put his shoe back on, went back into Meredith's room, covered her with the duvet, went through her purse, left the receipt, took what he wanted from the purse and left.
Click to expand...

He did not go through her purse. Since this appears to be the only reason you have for him going back into her room after he cleaned his shoe this is not likely at all

When he was leaving, he stepped into Meredith's blood and tracked it out the front door.
Click to expand...

See above
 
Where are the footprints in front of Amanda's room?

Bruce's website shows a distinct lack of footprints there. Why?
 
Fiona writes:

This is part of the problem. When did she tell Filomena about the blood and where was she when she did that? IN her first call to Filomena she said she was still at the cottage, but I don't think she mentioned the blood then.

I think she did. My notes include this comment from Filomena's police statement as published in Corriere dell'Umbria and translated by Damian a couple of years ago on one of the blogs:

"We decided to go to the Fair of the Dead in Pian di Massiano and we arrived around 12'20/12'30pm. While we were trying to park the car, I received a call from Amanda who told me that she had slept at Raffaele's house and that when she had gone back to out house she had found the door open and blood in her bathroom."

Filomena says Amanda told her she was about to leave the cottage for Raffaele's place. Amanda says she was at Raffaele's place when she first called Filomena, which according to cell phone records was at 12:08, 12 minutes before she (or someone) checked email and Johnsrud's Facebook page. I suspect this was misunderstanding because of the language barrier.

She and RS went to the cottage together, so if he was at home at 12:20, so was she.

Exactly. She checked her email just before they walked back to the cottage. Her last call from Filomena was logged at 12:34, and that is when she reported the broken window in Filomena's room.

So what time did they arrive at the cottage? Seems to me that they must have just got there when the PP arrived: And the fact that the mop was in the entry might tend to support that. In that case there is no reason to suppose they had finished the clean up: it is possible that they were going to finish off any stuff they missed in the dark

If one assumes cell phone records have the correct time, the garage camera clock was at least 10 minutes slow and the postals didn't get there until about 1 pm.

Tis all speculation: I want to see the report which should have far more detail

At over 400 pages, one would hope so. But among the details will be the conclusion that Amanda was walking around town with a 31cm kitchen knife in her handbag, which she carried for personal protection. I would treat such received wisdom with caution and, dare I say, skepticism.
 
I'm still several pages away from being caught up so perhaps this has already been pointed out.
Kermit, I'm positive the 2cm dimension is incorrect. That side frame of the interior blind is more like 3.5cm, close to 4cm even. 2cm is less than an inch which this is clearly more like 1.5 to 1-3/4 inches. If the rock were ever so slightly angled as it were thrown it just might make that mark as it crashed through the glass and knocked the blind open. This impact would have probably changed the trajectory of the rock and impacted its speed as well.
 
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