Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fiona]

Actually what I said wasn't correct in a sense, it was simply correct.


In the US, life means life. If you are 18, you get life without parole, you die in prison.

No it is not correct, Bruce Fisher. Italy is not the USA. Most places aren't

 

[Fiona]

fiona wrote: "We do. Perhaps our positions will converge a little when you show why you do not believe the police would be made suspicious by these things: they seem suspicious to me and I am not even paid to be suspicious."

Well, we can go around and around discussing and documenting issues that have been discussed and documented a million times over, but we will end up back in the same place.

The point is, when Amanda and Raffaele said things the police wanted to hear, the police believed them. When they said things the police did not want to hear, the police refused to believe them. Pretty much the same as the guilters. This is because the idea of Amanda and Raffaele having committed the murder is attractive to them and to you.

I think it is adorable that you can read my mind; but like all psychics it would be better if you got it right

How about you cite some actual evidence in support of your opinion now: if it has been documented a million times it will not be hard. You could start with the evidence that Guede went through Meredith's purse: I am really interested in that

 

[Bruce Fischer]

No it is not correct, Bruce Fisher. Italy is not the USA. Most places aren't

I said that a life sentence in Italy was 30 years.

That was all I said. That statement is correct.

It's not just correct in a sense like you said. It is correct.

I made the reference about the US simply to show the difference. Read the words, then comment.

 

[Mary_H]

I think it is adorable that you can read my mind; but like all psychics it would be better if you got it right

How about you cite some actual evidence in support of your opinion now: if it has been documented a million times it will not be hard. You could start with the evidence that Guede went through Meredith's purse: I am really interested in that

Frankly, I don't feel like doing that right now. Let's not be picayune. Whether or not I can document that Rudy went through Meredith's purse has little bearing on the big picture, just as capealadin's failure to document the mop-in-hand did not send anyone running for the hills (well, except maybe capealadin).

One things that intrigues me about the guilters is why they want to be in the group they're in. When you look at the pro-Amanda websites, you find all these legitimate, educated experts, professionals and scientists speaking out against the conviction. Then you go to truejustice and you get MissRepresented. Doesn't that embarrass them in any way?

Why don't you guys solicit an equally large group of legitimate, educated experts, professionals and scientists to support your claims? It would add a lot of credibility to your arguments.

 

[Fiona]

Because appeal to authority is a fallacy, probably

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Frankly, I don't feel like doing that right now. Let's not be picayune. Whether or not I can document that Rudy went through Meredith's purse has little bearing on the big picture, just as capealadin's failure to document the mop-in-hand did not send anyone running for the hills (well, except maybe capealadin).

One things that intrigues me about the guilters is why they want to be in the group they're in. When you look at the pro-Amanda websites, you find all these legitimate, educated experts, professionals and scientists speaking out against the conviction. Then you go to truejustice and you get MissRepresented. Doesn't that embarrass them in any way?

Why don't you guys solicit an equally large group of legitimate, educated experts, professionals and scientists to support your claims? It would add a lot of credibility to your arguments.

Well, we have all the Judges who sat on all the courts that continued to lead to the guilty verdict. We have the lab team that worked with the evidence.

I'd say our group trumps yours, if you want to appeal to authority. However, that's usually not worth much in any real argument. How about giving us why their opinions are more correct than that of the team that actually studied the evidence?

 

[Alt+F4]

There is a photograph of Amanda being questioned alone by a group of men in the yard of the cottage.

How can a photograph show questioning?

 

[Fiona]

I said that a life sentence in Italy was 30 years.

That was all I said. That statement is correct.

It's not just correct in a sense like you said. It is correct.

I made the reference about the US simply to show the difference. Read the words, then comment.

http://www.heuni.fi/Etusivu/Publications/HEUNIreports/1198085310872

Hard to find from that link but the report on Italy is by Adelmo Manna

The most severe penalty envisaged by the Italian criminal law system is the life sentence, i.e. a permanent sentence equal to the duration of the life of the sentenced person. It was introduced to substitute the death penalty with the aim of making the sanctioning system more humane. When the death penalty was eliminated from the Criminal Law Code in 1944, it was replaced by the life sentence in those cases for which the death penalty was originally envisaged.

Doubts regarding the compatibility between the life sentence and the principles of the Constitution were raised, particularly with respect to Article 27, paragraph 3, which establishes the rehabilitation function of convictions. These were incompatible with life sentences and other permanent sentences. Nevertheless, the Constitutional Court rejected these doubts with its decision No. 264 of 1974, which asserted that the aim of that penalty is not only to rehabilitate offenders, but also to protect society and neutralise the threat posed by certain offenders for an indefinite period.

<snip>

In the light of these proposals made by the government, it must be noted that even the opponents of permanent penalties have pointed out that they have been increasingly modified. Prisoners serving life sentences can be granted the conditional suspension of their sentence (see section 9.2) after twenty-six years of imprisonment, placed in semicustody or granted early release. This should help to solve the problem relating to the incompatibility between a life sentence and the rehabilitation function of penalties as provided for by the Constitution, without completely abolishing the sentence, at least in theory.

 

[stilicho]

stilicho, have you noticed that many of the topics of discussions on these threads are essentially matters of opinion and insight?

As HumanityBlues so aptly pointed out, why is there a thread?

That said, if you have seen no evidence of an issue of physical attraction between the Perugian men and Amanda Knox, then you need a great deal more education in the areas of human nature and cultural attitudes.

Please elaborate. Maybe I should get out more. I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying that the Perugia police felt a strong physical attraction to Amanda and parlayed that into a murder charge?

I know there are some strange forms of courtship out there but I didn't know about that one.

Provide details, please.

 

[stilicho]

I agree that PMF can, at times, be a great resource for new discoveries regarding the case. It's just a shame that the not all the revelations are given equal importance. The "fraud" you speak of, for instance, was hailed as rather damning evidence... but of what? All I saw was another statement, which when isolated and take out of context has the allusion of being condemning. "I ****ed up so bad, Madison" can sound bad on its own. But when read in context makes complete sense and is in line with her previous assertion that her statements made in the November 5th interrogation were made falsely under duress.

I’ve been studying to distract myself and in
meantime feeling like an absolute coward for letting
the police confuse me, when they threatened to thrown
me in jail for 30 years for lying to them I should have
held out my arms for the cuffs and told them to have
fun condemning an innocent person for just to be ??
but instead I got confused and scared and I ****ed up…
I ****ed up so bad Madison and I’m so sorry I did it
because I hurt a friend of mine and landed myself in
here.

What was the "fraud" in the documentary exactly?

Now, it was also recently revealed by an Italian translator on PMF that when Sollecito called the police he did not in fact say "There is a lot of blood", but instead said "There is a bloodstain". Quite different, and changes a lot about the earlier presumption regarding that phone call. But it was cast aside and not talked about. Then we have capealadin, a PMF regular who should know better, coming over here with the old "caught holding a mop" adage that was proven false ages ago. Then we also have Fulcanelli, a moderator from PMF who won't openly admit that that's who he is. I can only imagine the hounding Bruce would get if we all knew he was the owner of Injusticeinperugia, but would never admit it. I'm sure several people on here would use that to talk disparagingly about him .

You're talking about Clander and he's been a real boon to the translation team at PMF. I think we're in agreement, then, that the PMF is the first place you look for factual information about the murder case.

I'm in agreement with you, also, that the "documentary" enigmatically blurred out Amanda's true feelings.

 

[capealadin]

Humanity Blues: YOU were the one to make a petty personal remark (strange sense of humour). Why so angry? I simply posted the origin of the name. In any event, what you would do is not necessarily the same as someone else. Kermit the frog, btw, brings so much joy and happiness to so many. And I,m sure, helped in a way, the education of children everywhere. But we digress. This site is meant to discuss issues, not names, right.? In any event, Kermit doesn,t need any imput from me. And yes, he is a big boy. There is no question that you are extremely bright, and I,m sure very well educated. May I respectfully ask that we move on?

 

[Mary_H]

Because appeal to authority is a fallacy, probably

Probably not. It is more likely you can't get anyone with expertise to back up your position.

Have you even had anyone approach you to offer? Many of the people who have spoken out against the verdict were not even solicited -- they came forward of their own accord and/or built their own websites. So far, everyone who has really evaluated the data from Stefanoni's lab has found it to be invalid.

BobTheDonkey wrote: "How about giving us why their opinions are more correct than that of the team that actually studied the evidence?"

I thought that's what Amanda's supporters had been doing on all the blogs and websites. There have been several dozen discussions of just that subject matter, ad infinitum.

Let's forget about authority -- what do you think of the laws of physics?

 

[HumanityBlues]

Humanity Blues: YOU were the one to make a petty personal remark (strange sense of humour). Why so angry? I simply posted the origin of the name. In any event, what you would do is not necessarily the same as someone else. Kermit the frog, btw, brings so much joy and happiness to so many. And I,m sure, helped in a way, the education of children everywhere. But we digress. This site is meant to discuss issues, not names, right.? In any event, Kermit doesn,t need any imput from me. And yes, he is a big boy. There is no question that you are extremely bright, and I,m sure very well educated. May I respectfully ask that we move on?

Cape. We moved on a long time ago. The issue is dropped. I am done talking about it.

Sincerely,

Mickey Mouse

 

[Malkmus]

I think we're in agreement, then, that the PMF is the first place you look for factual information about the murder case.

I'm in agreement with you, also, that the "documentary" enigmatically blurred out Amanda's true feelings.

Actually, I never said either one of those two things, which anyone can tell from reading my post, so I'll thank you not resort to making things up and putting those words in my mouth. It's rather disingenuous of you. And you also didn't answer my question regarding what the "fraud" was in the documentary. Is it your tactic to deflect comments you don't like by answering with non-sequiturs? I noticed you did it earlier as well with the mop discussion.

 

[Mary_H]

Please elaborate. Maybe I should get out more. I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying that the Perugia police felt a strong physical attraction to Amanda and parlayed that into a murder charge?

I know there are some strange forms of courtship out there but I didn't know about that one.

Provide details, please.

Here's a little bit of an education for you, stilicho, from one of my favorite bloggers, billyryan. We have kept a blog running on Punchline Magazine since February 1st. It's very entertaining, as humorously profane insults are allowed to stand. I'm not sure if I can provide links yet as a new poster to this site, but the title of the article is, "Comedian explains why she organized Amanda Knox comedy show fundraiser."

billyryan said:

"....would any of ye amanda haters here care to tell the rest of us which gives ye the most pleasure.amanda distress at being convicted of a crime she had nothing to do with,or is it deanna or edda distress that excites ye the most"

"I am wondering which of ye is the biggest thug rude guede who stabbed a beautiful girl left her dying on the floor while he went dancing,done a deal with another thug mignini to destroy two more familys who are as innocent in this case as merridith.birds of a feather between them two.then “enzo zoff”and “jim said”who use a photograph of amanda and fantasise about her crying in a cell in italy to wank every night,i think the only way ye can manage this is yere vision of innocence tears and beauty,like i said i cant make up my mind which of the four of ye is the sickest thug."

"which part of this case do you fantasise about the most”the terrosising of a young girl during her questioning”or”mignini making the case that amanda and raffaela could interfere with the evidence if giving bail”the judge that accepted that is probally finding it hard to sleep,or is it really the thought that you could have been the policeman that seperated a crying and terrified girl from her crying and frightened three sisters and mother,and put her into a prison van for a trip to hell,for a crime you know well she had nothing to do with."

"I was sort of hoping you would dissapear and be just happy wanking yourself looking at the photographs mignini gave you of when these brave men had amanda crying"

"in your next post tell us all why you hate amanda,forget the evidence what pleasure does her suffering give you"

"nobody with a pair could be in such celebration over a damsel in distress"

 

[Amazer]

Here's a little bit of an education for you, stilicho, from one of my favorite bloggers, billyryan. We have kept a blog running on Punchline Magazine since February 1st. It's very entertaining, as humorously profane insults are allowed to stand. I'm not sure if I can provide links yet as a new poster to this site, but the title of the article is, "Comedian explains why she organized Amanda Knox comedy show fundraiser."

billyryan said:

"....would any of ye amanda haters here care to tell the rest of us which gives ye the most pleasure.amanda distress at being convicted of a crime she had nothing to do with,or is it deanna or edda distress that excites ye the most"

"I am wondering which of ye is the biggest thug rude guede who stabbed a beautiful girl left her dying on the floor while he went dancing,done a deal with another thug mignini to destroy two more familys who are as innocent in this case as merridith.birds of a feather between them two.then “enzo zoff”and “jim said”who use a photograph of amanda and fantasise about her crying in a cell in italy to wank every night,i think the only way ye can manage this is yere vision of innocence tears and beauty,like i said i cant make up my mind which of the four of ye is the sickest thug."

"which part of this case do you fantasise about the most”the terrosising of a young girl during her questioning”or”mignini making the case that amanda and raffaela could interfere with the evidence if giving bail”the judge that accepted that is probally finding it hard to sleep,or is it really the thought that you could have been the policeman that seperated a crying and terrified girl from her crying and frightened three sisters and mother,and put her into a prison van for a trip to hell,for a crime you know well she had nothing to do with."

"I was sort of hoping you would dissapear and be just happy wanking yourself looking at the photographs mignini gave you of when these brave men had amanda crying"

"in your next post tell us all why you hate amanda,forget the evidence what pleasure does her suffering give you"

"nobody with a pair could be in such celebration over a damsel in distress"

Mary,

I fail to see how that answered stilicho's question. I also fail to see how this helps to prove your earlies assertion that the police had a "physcial attraction" for Amanda.

 

[stilicho]

Here's a little bit of an education for you, stilicho, from one of my favorite bloggers, billyryan. We have kept a blog running on Punchline Magazine since February 1st. It's very entertaining, as humorously profane insults are allowed to stand. I'm not sure if I can provide links yet as a new poster to this site, but the title of the article is, "Comedian explains why she organized Amanda Knox comedy show fundraiser."

billyryan said:

"....would any of ye amanda haters here care to tell the rest of us which gives ye the most pleasure.amanda distress at being convicted of a crime she had nothing to do with,or is it deanna or edda distress that excites ye the most"

I still don't get it. Who is the "young girl" in your scenario? AK is and was an adult at the time of her arrest. She's serving serious time for her crimes. She will be old by the time she leaves Capanne.

What is your point?

 

[stilicho]

Actually, I never said either one of those two things, which anyone can tell from reading my post, so I'll thank you not resort to making things up and putting those words in my mouth. It's rather disingenuous of you. And you also didn't answer my question regarding what the "fraud" was in the documentary. Is it your tactic to deflect comments you don't like by answering with non-sequiturs? I noticed you did it earlier as well with the mop discussion.

The fraud was in the deletion of AK's true feelings. Have you seen the pages side by side? Why did they leave those parts out?

It is only available on the PMF. I'm sorry if you regret going there and getting your facts there but you won't find it anywhere else.

 

[Mary_H]

Mary,

I fail to see how that answered stilicho's question. I also fail to see how this helps to prove your earlies assertion that the police had a "physcial attraction" for Amanda.

stilicho has been pretending he doesn't get the concepts. I was making sure we were both on the same sheet of music.

If you guys don't have the life experience to detect the undercurrents in this case, I can give you a short course is human sexuality, psychology, cultural anthropology, etc. I have to go out for awhile, though, so more later.

 

[Amazer]

stilicho has been pretending he doesn't get the concepts. I was making sure we were both on the same sheet of music.

If you guys don't have the life experience to detect the undercurrents in this case, I can give you a short course is human sexuality, psychology, cultural anthropology, etc. I have to go out for awhile, though, so more later.

Wouldn't it be easier if you just make your case... provide some evidence to support your claims? That approach will work a lot better for me then this baseless chitter-chatter with no apparent basis in reality.