Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Bruce Fischer]

I refer you back to this: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5834900&postcount=7036

The Massei report is not evidence. It is an interpretation of the evidence. Anyone who believes that Amanda and Raffaele have been wrongly convicted obviously disagrees with Massei's interpretation.

Showing the Massei report to Charlie will not change his interpretation of the evidence.

If the judge's reports were always correct, there would be no need for the appeals process.

 

[Alt+F4]

Showing the Massei report to Charlie will not change his interpretation of the evidence.

You're right but I'm curious why Charlie (and others who believe in AK and RS's innocence) have such a different interpretation of the evidence than the jury did.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

The FOA should be glad of it, for Judge Massie agreed with it and thanks to that he granted Amanda very generous mitigation indeed. Were it not for that, she'd be looking at a good deal more than 26 Years.

Actually, it would have been just 4 more years if I am not mistaken.

 

[Dan O.]

Good day Dan O.
Thanks for the link, it looks similiar to the toilet in the place I have rented for some 10 years. I know, because I've changed the inside parts, sounds like my landlord is similiar to the landlord over there in Perugia. But still though, I believe that Guede's feces timeline is an overlooked clue, since if his feces were in the bowl for what, lets say overnight for 10-12 hours, I believe they should've dropped much sooner, instead of doing so in the short time between Amamnda's shower and her return with Raffaele. I can recall reading that Amanda was freaked out a bit when she saw that they were different, for that meant that the murderer might still have been inside when she came home to shower.
RWVBWL

That link was generic for those that have never bothered to look.

It's uncertain if there was actually a change or if Amanda was just looking from a different angle. It's also possible for the pipes to hammer from quickly shutting off one valve causing the valve in the other toilet to open briefly. This is a problem in older houses that is easily corrected by installing an expansion tank. [note to guilters: I am not saying that there was any evidence that hammering was a problem in the cottage]

 

[Fulcanelli]

Mary,

If you're into CBS and 48 Hours, I have a request.... could you keep your eyes open for the clip, or even a direct quote, of Giobbi talking about the suspicious pizza, and if you see it, post it. I've been looking for this clip for some small while now.

There is no clip of him talking about the Pizza Shuttit. This is all word of mouth from people like Ciolino and Chris Mellas only. Since it is one of their favourite little talking points, you can bet your life they'd have posted it by now if it ever existed.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

You're right but I'm curious why Charlie (and others who believe in AK and RS's innocence) have such a different interpretation of the evidence than the jury did.

We believe that the jury got it wrong. They were heavily influenced.

 

[capealadin]

Bruce: Dont, answer a question with a question: How would Rudi know when someone would return? AND, you have not answered the question: HOW did Raff know nothing was missing?

 

[Fulcanelli]

There is no doubt Rudy left skin cells on the bedding. If the lab didn't bother to analyze them, it is probably because they felt they had enough to work with without going over everything with a fine tooth comb.

The lab workers analyzing the first evidence from the crime scene were working on it in the days immediately following the murder. They were looking for the killer. Mignini had not yet formulated his theory that three people sexually attacked a fourth on these linens.

After Amanda and Raffaele were accused, of course, the lab had a different purpose -- to look specifically for signs of Amanda and Raffaele. Too bad Mignini wasn't quicker on his feet -- he could have faked the evidence from the bedroom, too.

This is all absolutely false. The bedding was tested, it was swabbed.

The lab was not tasked on focussing on Amanda and Raffaele. They were tasked with examining all the items of evidence that had been collected, no matter where it may have come from. Most of it came from the crime scene.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

There is no clip of him talking about the Pizza Shuttit. This is all word of mouth from people like Ciolino and Chris Mellas only. Since it is one of their favourite little talking points, you can bet your life they'd have posted it by now if it ever existed.

Don't wreck it for Shuttlt. He really wants to know about that Pizza.

You see Shuttlt has no care in the world about the outcome of this case. He is simply here to dissect the arguments. He is fascinated by small details that have no bearing on the case.

Let him keep looking. This is a hobby for him.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Bruce: Dont, answer a question with a question: How would Rudi know when someone would return? AND, you have not answered the question: HOW did Raff know nothing was missing?

Oh, he always does that Cape. It's his method of debating. He'll answer with a question and insist you answer that fast...and you'll never get the answer to the question you asked. It's a defence mechanism. One wonders why he needs one if he's here for 'truth'.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Bruce: Dont, answer a question with a question: How would Rudi know when someone would return? AND, you have not answered the question: HOW did Raff know nothing was missing?

That is what burglars do. They find out information about future break-ins. Rudy would have possibly talked with the guys downstairs, he would have asked questions to see where people were going to be.

 

[Fulcanelli]

The DNA evidence against Guede, from inside the murder room, consists of a weak profile (y haplotype) on a vaginal swab, a strong profile on the victim's purse, and a weak profile (y haplotype) on the sleeve of the victim's sweatshirt. Any one of those samples could be the result of contamination or laboratory error. Three together form a pattern that is hard to overcome. But, let's say the vaginal swab is a laboratory error, and hypothesize that Guede may have had some kind of casual, non-sexual contact with Meredith that left his DNA on her purse and on the sleeve of her garment. It's not likely, but it is conceivable. BUT - when we add in Guede's fingerprints, in the victim's blood, in the room where the victim was killed, and Guede's bloody shoe prints in the room and in the corridor leading to the exit, the evidence becomes incontrovertible.

Yet you can see no 'pattern' in the evidence against Raffaele and Amanda.

 

[capealadin]

Bruce: Your silence on these questions speak volumes. Here's an easier one for you. In Amanda' words to her mother : "I cannot lie, I was There". Hmmm?

 

[quadraginta]

Alt+F4 writes:

Why is it, do you think, that while AK and RS's innocence is so clear to you, the jury rejected this and found them guilty?

There was too much publicity. Acquitting Knox and Sollecito would have been tantamount to an admission that the criminal justice system in Perugia screwed up on this case. It's not just Mignini who would have looked bad. The police would have looked bad, and Micheli and Matteini would have looked bad. Massei works with those people. They're all part of a local system.

Look at what is going on in the Catholic church. We are finding out how bishops and church officials dealt with pedophile priests... they covered up for them, they kept the police at bay, and when victims got to be too much trouble, they quietly paid them off. Why didn't they just call the cops and say, "this colleague of mine is a serial child molester"?

Swell. First the thread gets Godwinned.

Now it gets Poped

... or did I misspell that?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Charlie,

I can feel myself getting dragged into a debate about the evidence for the cleanup which I don't really want to do. My knowledge of it isn't sufficient to make it worth while. However, just to clarify, my point, in response to Mary's post, was that with the exception of the internal DNA, there is nothing about what Guede left behind (again, speaking purely about DNA) that would have been impossible for him to have cleaned up, had he wished. Perhaps as suggested he left DNA in locations that have not been tested, but the same could be true of Amanda and Raffaele. If Raffaele and Amanda had less physical contact with Meredith than Guede there would be probably be less DNA to begin with. If it was Rudy who did most of the restraining then might it not be quite difficult to find any trace of them regardless of whether there was a cleanup?

Shuttit, it's quite simple...if blood has to be revealed with luminol or some other presumptive blood test, then it's been cleaned (with the exception of very old crime scenes where the blood may have simply faded away over time, depending on the surface and elements exposed to).

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Oh, he always does that Cape. It's his method of debating. He'll answer with a question and insist you answer that fast...and you'll never get the answer to the question you asked. It's a defence mechanism. One wonders why he needs one if he's here for 'truth'.

I had already answered her question. Spin it anyway you like.

I am certainly not here to defend myself. I have a good grasp of the facts and you don't like that. You have been on the defensive from the first day that I arrived here.

Your first post to me was defensive. You have lost your temper numerous times since my arrival. I have the facts and it messes up your little game. You don't like me because I refuse to follow your BS.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Your comment simply does not apply to the court of law. Amanda has no interest in winning the internet debate.

In court, you must prove someone guilty

That's been done I believe. You know, trial, guilty verdict, unanimous...all that boring stuff.

 

[shuttlt]

There is no clip of him talking about the Pizza Shuttit. This is all word of mouth from people like Ciolino and Chris Mellas only. Since it is one of their favourite little talking points, you can bet your life they'd have posted it by now if it ever existed.

Not more missing tapes? It's Watergate all over again.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Fillomenia testified that the shutters would not latch because the wood was swollen. The shutters rubbed on the sill preventing them from closing far enough to engage the latch. The open shutter is an open invitation to any potential burglar. If the open window is noticeable from the street, the odds of a burglar choosing your home greatly improve.

After the investigation, this shutter had been forced closed and presumably latched. It is no longer an inviting entry point so wasn't used in subsequent breakins.

A potential burglar can't see the latch isn't done up, the latch is on the inside. They would close, just not tightly enough to apply the latch. To all looking it it would have appeared the shutters were shut fast.

These look shut tight to me...and those aren't new shutters.

 

[capealadin]

Bruce: It would have been better if you had not tried to answer. Even you must realize how ridiculous your *answer* is. Possibly even Meredith didn,t know when she would return. Or if Raffaele and Amanda decided to hang at the cottage. The boys were away..and how could they know, in any case, where everyone would be. And certainly the boys knew Meredith was around. She was in charge of taking care of the *plants*. As Rudi had been caught before, I,m sure he wouldn,t want to have been caught again. I suppose, the cottage was the easiest to break into. And had the most valuables in it. And most other places had more than 8 people living in it. So finding out where 8 people would be, without raising suspitions, of course, was a cinch. Especially as apparantly he and Amanda, Raff, Filomena and Laura didn,t know him. Puhleeeze!