Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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michellesings writes:

I am fairly sure that in most investigations, all of the knives would have been taken, and in both apartments.


They didn't have any interest in the knives at the cottage. Nor were they interested in identifying the unknown individuals who left their DNA on cigarette butts in the kitchen and on bloody bloody tissues found just outside the cottage. Probably these traces would have matched the Italian housemates, their boyfriends, or the downstairs tenants, but the authorities didn't obtain reference samples from any of those people. They weren't really conducting an investigation. They jumped to a conclusion before they knew the facts, the media ran with it, and they realized that if it didn't pan out, they'd look like fools. That was what drove every decision they made.

I find it interesting that so many otherwise intelligent people have fallen for the claptrap put out by these clowns.

"Amanda was carrying a bag very roomy as Romanelli stated (p. 51, Hearing 7.2.2009), in this stock could find a place the knife in question. Amanda in its various movements, such as going to the pub Le Chic located in Via Alessi, she could be alone in having to walk even late at night on roads that might not seem so safe to walk at night by a girl. E 'therefore possible and even likely given the relationship that Raffaele Sollecito had with knives (was inseparable from his boxcutter as we have seen) that Amanda has been advised and convinced by her boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito precisely, to hold or carry this knife, if only to make her feel more secure and, if necessary, might well serve as a deterrent against possible attackers that night and he could meet alone."

Sure, that's the ticket. She was walking around town with a big kitchen knife in case she ran into an olive-throwing Albanian.

I wondered what had become of those tissues, there was even a photograph showing them wasn't there? Do you have proof they were only collected and never tested or were they tested and ruled out for some reason? Anyone?

As a purse carrying woman I cannot even remotely conceive of another woman walking around with a knife like that in her purse for protection, not to mention the damage it would possibly do to the inside of the bag or her fingers every time something was needed from the purse. Plus, it was Rafaelle's only good cooking knife so why would she take it? In my opinion this theory has no legs whatsoever. Why not just use one of Rafaelle’s smaller, collectable knives instead?
 
Putting aside all the legal technicalities, I believe this point connects with people. The answer is of course not.

It will be interesting to see how the new jury sees it. If I try and picture how I would react if I was on the jury, I don't see myself giving any credence to anything related to the Nov. 5-6 interrogation given the context that it happened. Even it if was "legal", I just don't see the output being reliable.

There is no jury, only judges. The judges act as judge and jury.
 
I wondered what had become of those tissues, there was even a photograph showing them wasn't there? Do you have proof they were only collected and never tested or were they tested and ruled out for some reason? Anyone?

As a purse carrying woman I cannot even remotely conceive of another woman walking around with a knife like that in her purse for protection, not to mention the damage it would possibly do to the inside of the bag or her fingers every time something was needed from the purse. Plus, it was Rafaelle's only good cooking knife so why would she take it? In my opinion this theory has no legs whatsoever. Why not just use one of Rafaelle’s smaller, collectable knives instead?

As far as I'm aware, the blood on the tissues was found to be cat blood.

As for the carrying of the knife in the handbag for protection, I agree with you. I don't agree with Massei's reasoning for that conclusion, which isn't evidenced either. However, Knox supporters should be grateful for that, for had he not come to that conclusion he then only have concluded that Knox had deliberately brought it out with her that night with malicious intent...and Knox would have been given life, not 26 years.
 
Putting aside all the legal technicalities, I believe this point connects with people. The answer is of course not.

It will be interesting to see how the new jury sees it. If I try and picture how I would react if I was on the jury, I don't see myself giving any credence to anything related to the Nov. 5-6 interrogation given the context that it happened. Even it if was "legal", I just don't see the output being reliable.
It was inadmissable, just like Raffaele's statement about their alibi being a load of ******** was inadmissable. It really shouldn't play much of a part in their reasoning. They were able to consider her accusation, or whatever we want to call it, of Lumumba.... but then again, that was confirmed (at least in the sense of confirming that she told the whole witnissing the murder story, and that the story was based on memories, no made up, even if these memories themselves may have been false) by her "gift". The real importance of the interrogation is that it is being used as proof of illegal police practice and unfair treatment of Amanda.
 
I wondered what had become of those tissues, there was even a photograph showing them wasn't there? Do you have proof they were only collected and never tested or were they tested and ruled out for some reason? Anyone?

As a purse carrying woman I cannot even remotely conceive of another woman walking around with a knife like that in her purse for protection, not to mention the damage it would possibly do to the inside of the bag or her fingers every time something was needed from the purse. Plus, it was Rafaelle's only good cooking knife so why would she take it? In my opinion this theory has no legs whatsoever. Why not just use one of Rafaelle’s smaller, collectable knives instead?
I thought Raffaele claimed never to have used the knife.

"That huge knife was already at my house when I rented it. I never used that knife. Amanda used it when cutting onions."
http://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubblica/archivio/repubblica/2007/11/17/quel-coltello-lo-usava-amanda-solo-in.html

Did the man never cook?
 
I thought Raffaele claimed never to have used the knife.

"That huge knife was already at my house when I rented it. I never used that knife. Amanda used it when cutting onions."
http://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubblica/archivio/repubblica/2007/11/17/quel-coltello-lo-usava-amanda-solo-in.html

Did the man never cook?

And it also begs the question, if Raffaele never used that knife and that was his only kitchen knife...then what knife did he use to cook...and where is it?


ETA: Oh yes, he cooked and Amanda speaks of him often cooking for her.
 
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Thanks,

It's a pity the source is Mignini, I don't think Bruce is going to accept him, anyway:
Re the question of the defence lawyer
Mr Preston was questioned as a person with information about the facts (ie almost as a witness) then, evidence of a criminal offence having emerged, his questioning was suspended because he had to be assisted by a lawyer, and because there was the possibility of an offence, the law required the suspension of proceedings until a ruling was delivered on the proceedings relevant to the statements which had been made.
All I did was to apply the Italian law of proceedings. I really cannot understand. Knox was also heard as a witness by the Police, then evidence of her involvement in the crime having emerged, the Police suspended the questioning according to article 63 - Law of Criminal Proceedings. However she deemed that she was making an unsolicited statement, which I received without her being questioned, and which was thus completely legitimate. Only in the case of a formal interrogation, with notification of criminal offences and questioning by a PM or a judge, must the person under investigation be represented by a defence lawyer, not when unsolicited statements are being made under article 374 - Law of Criminal Proceedings.
 
And it also begs the question, if Raffaele never used that knife and that was his only kitchen knife...then what knife did he use to cook...and where is it?
Perhaps his cooking was limited to heating up pasta and pizza and eating out. In my single days I could go months at a time without doing any cooking that would have needed a knife.
 
I don't really call 1 hour and 45 minutes through the night. And who cares whether it was day or night time? And police question witnesses all the time, in your country as well as in Italy and yes, they question them without a lawyer.

And I will point out, murder is not a 'comfortable' thing. That is why it destroys lives and is such a serious crime. Quit criticising the police for treating it seriously. If it was your daughter lying dead with her throat slashed, would you want the police to be treating it seriously? You bet! So, stop the whining.

It was a question posted for someone else. I am not whining. The police will continue to be criticized because they were completely incompetent when it came to investigating this crime. Time will tell if this was intentional incompetence.

But then again, you believe that the bra clasp was handled properly.

No need to collect it along with the bra. Just store it in the cottage for 47 days.

They saw it on the first day and decided that the clasp would be safer on the floor.

No need to put that vital piece of evidence in a evidence collection bag.

This is where you lose all credibility. You won't even admit that the clasp was mishandled. This shows your extreme bias in this case.
 
It was inadmissable, just like Raffaele's statement about their alibi being a load of ******** was inadmissable. It really shouldn't play much of a part in their reasoning. They were able to consider her accusation, or whatever we want to call it, of Lumumba.... but then again, that was confirmed (at least in the sense of confirming that she told the whole witnissing the murder story, and that the story was based on memories, no made up, even if these memories themselves may have been false) by her "gift". The real importance of the interrogation is that it is being used as proof of illegal police practice and unfair treatment of Amanda.

Interesting - so you are saying that as far as the murder trial, the judges were not allowed to consider any of the interrogations from Nov. 5-6 and only allowed to consider the "gift" statement? What is the big deal about it being legal or illegal then if the output cannot be used against her?
 
Danceme writes:

I wondered what had become of those tissues, there was even a photograph showing them wasn't there? Do you have proof they were only collected and never tested or were they tested and ruled out for some reason? Anyone?

Rep. 11, tissue paper found on the line of pavement (vicinity of the lawn) in front of the entry of the lower apartment, revealed the DNA of an unknown male.

Rep. 17, tissue paper marked with the letter “C” found on the right side of the wall of the path that leads to the house of the Via della Pergola Nb. 7 (report of exhibits and attachments 11/05/2007), revealed the DNA of a different unknown male.

Rep. 19, tissue paper marked with the sign “DX” found in Via S. Antonio (report descriptive survey carried out by the Gabinetto Provinciale (Provincial Laboratory) of the Forensic Police of Perugia), revealed the DNA of an unknown female.

Rep. 20, tissue paper marked with the sign “SX” found in Via S. Antonio (Report of descriptive survey carried out by Gabbinetto Provinciale (Provincial Laboratory) of the Forensic Police of Perugia), revealed the DNA of the same female as Rep. 19.
 
Interesting - so you are saying that as far as the murder trial, the judges were not allowed to consider any of the interrogations from Nov. 5-6 and only allowed to consider the "gift" statement? What is the big deal about it being legal or illegal then if the output cannot be used against her?
The interrogation is important in a few ways. First, as I said earlier it is used as evidence that Amanda was treated illegally and unfairly - the famous "railroad job from hell". Second there is the accusation of Patrick. Some sort of accusation of Patrick or to be pedantic, story told by Amanda in which Patrick killed Meredith that was described by Amanda to the police as a memory, certainly did happen. That Amanda had told such a story and that it was true that it was based on memories (all be it untrue ones) was confirmed by Amanda in her "gift" and at the trial. Either Amanda lied to the police in accusing Patrick an hour or two after her boyfriend had told the police that their previous alibi was a lie, which strikes me as significant, or in something significantly less than an hour and fourty five minutes Amanda became so confused by false memories that she told the police a completely untrue version of the nights events involving her covering her ears to block out her housemates murder.

In terms of the trial I don't think it is very important. If it hadn't been for her gift, the events of the interrogation would have been more important. In so far as her statements in the gift and the trial go, she confirms what little we know of her 1:45am statement, she confirms that she thought she was telling the truth in her statements, she also makes it clear that her memories involving Patrick are probably false.
 
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The interrogation is important in a few ways. First, as I said earlier it is used as evidence that Amanda was treated illegally and unfairly - the famous "railroad job from hell". Second there is the accusation of Patrick. Some sort of accusation of Patrick or to be pedantic, story told by Amanda in which Patrick killed Meredith that was described by Amanda to the police as a memory, certainly did happen. That Amanda had told such a story and that it was true that it was based on memories (all be it untrue ones) was confirmed by Amanda in her "gift" and at the trial. Either Amanda lied to the police in accusing Patrick an hour or two after her boyfriend had told the police that their previous alibi was a lie, which strikes me as significant, or in something significantly less than an hour and fourty five minutes Amanda became so confused by false memories that she told the police a completely untrue version of the nights events involving her covering her ears to block out her housemates murder.

In terms of the trial I don't think it is very important.

Or the police told Amanda to imagine all of those things and they prepared a document for her to sign. We have gone over this. Stop pretending to know what happened during the interrogation and wait for the appeal.

Patrick was suggested to Amanda by the police. Patrick was arrested based on the information that was provided by the police to Amanda, then prepared for Amanda to sign. They had nothing else at all to link Patrick to the crime yet they still arrested him and held him for 2 weeks.

The police were incompetent when it came to investigating this case. Time will tell if that incompetence was an accident. There is much more to come with regard to the police in Perugia Italy.
 
Was the bra clasp handled properly by investigators? I am interested in everyone's opinion on this.

I just read the first page of this very long thread and found this:

It appears correct that there was not any physical evidence (or witnesses) placing Knox in the bedroom. Some of her boyfriend's DNA, however, was found on the clasp of the victim's bra, so that would seem to place him at the scene -- though that clasp was apparently misplaced by the police, found, and then tested some 40+ days later.

It would appear that it was not handled properly, but I did skip the 99 pages in between so I could be corrected.
 
Or the police told Amanda to imagine all of those things and they prepared a document for her to sign. We have gone over this. Stop pretending to know what happened during the interrogation and wait for the appeal.
Why don't we all pack up and go home and wait until both appeals are done? You have a page dedicated to the interrogation. I don't think I'm prejudging things any more than you are. Do you know what happened in the interrogation? If so, how?

Patrick was suggested to Amanda by the police.
I've yet to see a version of these events from Amanda that isn't muddled as hell. In asking her about the SMS Patrick's name necessarily came up in the interrogation. Is that what you meant by suggested? What does it matter anyway, within an hour she had told the police a story based on her memories of Patrick as the killer. In all the blog posts I've read on this case, I haven't seen anyone post an example of somebody getting false memories due to a couple of slaps on the head and some agressive questioning in an hour.

Patrick was arrested based on the information that was provided by the police to Amanda, then prepared for Amanda to sign.
Surely Amanda said the stuff that formed the statement? I haven't seen Amanda say that she never said what went into her statement.

They had nothing else at all to link Patrick to the crime yet they still arrested him and held him for 2 weeks.
They were already suspicious of Amanda and Raffaele, Raffaele had carried a knife to his interrogation about a knife murder, Raffaele had told them that their previous alibi was a load of ********, they had a SMS to Patrick, one ligitimate interpretation of which had Patrick and Amanda planning to meet during the evening, and they had Amanda's memories which, had they been true would have been mutually supportive with this interpretation of the SMS. Given the SMS and the memories, any suspicion of Amanda and Raffaele naturally would have attached itself to Patrick as well.
 
Thanks,

It's a pity the source is Mignini, I don't think Bruce is going to accept him, anyway:

Well, there's more sources, that was just the one I could remember off the top of my head. But anyway, why would Mignini lie in explaining the system? But, if you want some different ask Yumi on PMF or ask Commisario Montalbano who's registered on PMF, but also hangs out a lot over on TJMK (he's an Italian lawyer).
 
Or the police told Amanda to imagine all of those things and they prepared a document for her to sign. We have gone over this. Stop pretending to know what happened during the interrogation and wait for the appeal.

Patrick was suggested to Amanda by the police. Patrick was arrested based on the information that was provided by the police to Amanda, then prepared for Amanda to sign. They had nothing else at all to link Patrick to the crime yet they still arrested him and held him for 2 weeks.

The police were incompetent when it came to investigating this case. Time will tell if that incompetence was an accident. There is much more to come with regard to the police in Perugia Italy.

Except the police never told her to 'imagine' as Amanda confirmed herself on the stand during the trial.

Patrick was not suggested to Amanda by the police. The police didn't even know who Patrick was until they asked her about the text message on her phone and she turned round and accused him.

The police were hardly incompetent. Things can always be done better and that's the same in any case, but they got a unanimous conviction in court. That's hardly incompetent.
 
Interesting - so you are saying that as far as the murder trial, the judges were not allowed to consider any of the interrogations from Nov. 5-6 and only allowed to consider the "gift" statement? What is the big deal about it being legal or illegal then if the output cannot be used against her?

Actually, they could consider them since her initial statements were brought back into play because of her memoir which referred to them and because of her criminal slander of Patrick.
 
It was a question posted for someone else. I am not whining. The police will continue to be criticized because they were completely incompetent when it came to investigating this crime. Time will tell if this was intentional incompetence.

But then again, you believe that the bra clasp was handled properly.

No need to collect it along with the bra. Just store it in the cottage for 47 days.

They saw it on the first day and decided that the clasp would be safer on the floor.

No need to put that vital piece of evidence in a evidence collection bag.

This is where you lose all credibility. You won't even admit that the clasp was mishandled. This shows your extreme bias in this case.

Yes. This is why they retain the crime sealed. So they can store the evidence there and return to it as needed to pick up more evidence for testing. They also went back at later times and got other evidence, such as the Vaseline and hairdryer. They went to Raffaele's and got more evidence at later times as well.There is no rule that says all potential evidence must be removed from the crime scene immediately. They take the evidence that is most promising first, then they return at later times for other things as and when the investigation reveals them to be of importance. That is how they do things in Italy.

It is not done that way in the US as the police have about 2 - 3 days max with the crime scene before it has to be returned to the owner.
 
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