Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fulcanelli]

Fulcanelli,
I like that term "willy wave". Is that British?

It seems a short way of saying whip it out and show everyone how big it is.

Yes...and that's exactly what it means

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Michael and Bob, I said I would look over the questions from Michael. Why did you both ignore that? I didn't say that I wouldn't answer your questions. I said that I have no interest in trying to change your mind. I know that my answers will not satisfy you. You will simply attack them as FOA. I will get to this later tonight. I am going to have dinner with my family. Calm down. I know you both can't wait to throw the next punch at me.

Fulcanelli, can you please explain to me why you called Steve Moore a sock puppet?

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Have you ever met Bob Graham Bruce? PMF has and with regret, has worked with him in the past. We know well what Graham and Garfield are.

Was this simply because Mr. Graham didn't agree with you? I am talking with a lot of people. I will keep my associations private. It would be impossible to research this case properly without talking to the parties involved.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Then I look forward to your answers, although perhaps, without the persecution complex.

As for Steve Moore, he may not be a sock puppet, but he's certainly a recruit. His work is sincere enough, although highly flawed. If I were to make any major 'professional' complaint about him, it's that he went beyond his remit and what he was showing with the evidence by naming Rudy Guede (as some sort of fact) as the individual who entered into the room. One should not do that in a presentation unless one actually evidences it.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Was this simply because Mr. Graham didn't agree with you? I am talking with a lot of people. I will keep my associations private. It would be impossible to research this case properly without talking to the parties involved.

I refer you to the posts made by Skeptical Bystander on the matter over on PMF.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Then I look forward to your answers, although perhaps, without the persecution complex.

As for Steve Moore, he may not be a sock puppet, but he's certainly a recruit. His work is sincere enough, although highly flawed. If I were to make any major 'professional' complaint about him, it's that he went beyond his remit and what he was showing with the evidence by naming Rudy Guede (as some sort of fact) as the individual who entered into the room. One should not do that in a presentation unless one actually evidences it.

Believe me, I do not feel persecuted. I simply think that Bob and yourself love to throw punches before you even know who you are swinging at. If someone disagrees with you, your first thought is to attack.

I signed on to your PMF site and said hello. I was almost instantly banned. Why, because we disagree. That was the absolute right of the site to ban me. I have no complaints about that. It is a private forum and you can chose who participates. It simply exposed the mindset of the forum.

When you called Steve Moore a sock puppet, that was a perfect example. He disagreed with you and you came out swinging.

You might not believe me when I say this but I completely understand why many people feel that Amanda and Raffaele are guilty. They were convicted in a court of law. People feel comfortable knowing that justice is served and that bad people are put in prison.

Wrongful convictions do happen. I believe that is exactly what happened with this case.

Most people that believe Amanda and Raffaele are guilty certainly don't take the aggressive position that you do. I will never really understand why you have built up so much anger against Amanda Knox and Rafaellle Sollecito. It's not for me to try and understand. It is more of a curiosity for me I guess.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Believe me, I do not feel persecuted. I simply think that Bob and yourself love to throw punches before you even know who you are swinging at. If someone disagrees with you, your first thought is to attack.

I signed on to your PMF site and said hello. I was almost instantly banned. Why, because we disagree. That was the absolute right of the site to ban me. I have no complaints about that. It is a private forum and you can chose who participates. It simply exposed the mindset of the forum.

When you called Steve Moore a sock puppet, that was a perfect example. He disagreed with you and you came out swinging.

You might not believe me when I say this but I completely understand why many people feel that Amanda and Raffaele are guilty. They were convicted in a court of law. People feel comfortable knowing that justice is served and that bad people are put in prison.

Wrongful convictions do happen. I believe that is exactly what happened with this case.

Most people that believe Amanda and Raffaele are guilty certainly don't take the aggressive position that you do. I will never really understand why you have built up so much anger against Amanda Knox and Rafaellle Sollecito. It's not for me to try and understand. It is more of a curiosity for me I guess.

Correction:

I do not/have not attack(ed) you. I have presented valid points as to why your assertions appear false. I have asked you to validate that which you claim to be. In other words, I have done my best to limiting myself to attacking the arguments - which is exactly what this forum encourages.

Twice I have mentioned your "methods" of persuasion - which are also part of your argument - and have nothing to do with you personally. In fact, both of those times I offered valid advice - 1) repetition does not make a falsity true, we require evidence and 2) attacking other posters is frowned upon.




Now, off the red-herrings and back to your arguments.

Do you have any evidence (at all) that Rudy was ever in Filomena's room?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Unfortunately, the evidence doesn't support your belief of a wrongful conviction.

As for the 'attacks' you are talking about, none of them are personal, rather it is your assertions and arguments that are being challenged. If that is difficult for you, then perhaps debate is not for you.

As for PMF, as I understand it, you were banned for good reasons. It was not I that banned you.

As for the 'anger' against Raffaele and Amanda...I am unhappy with them for what they did (I wouldn't call it 'anger', more a great sadness). I 'am' however, rather angry at the propaganda PR campaign being put out by certain individuals on their behalf, one that is designed to mislead and confuse. It is one that is vindictive and mean and serves to make the victims Meredith Kercher and her family, victims for a second time.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Unfortunately, the evidence doesn't support your belief of a wrongful conviction.

As for the 'attacks' you are talking about, none of them are personal, rather it is your assertions and arguments that are being challenged. If that is difficult for you, then perhaps debate is not for you.

As for PMF, as I understand it, you were banned for good reasons. It was not I that banned you.

As for the 'anger' against Raffaele and Amanda...I am unhappy with them for what they did (I wouldn't call it 'anger', more a great sadness). I 'am' however, rather angry at the propaganda PR campaign being put out by certain individuals on their behalf, one that is designed to mislead and confuse. It is one that is vindictive and mean and serves to make the victims Meredith Kercher and her family, victims for a second time.

As far as PMF goes, you can go back and read the dialog. I said hello and your friend Peggy ask me to stop posting. It was instant. But It's okay. You can ban anyone you like. It's your forum.

I have no problems with debate. I think that is why you have tried so hard to get rid of me. From my instant ban on PMF to your lecture after I made my first post on this forum. That is my personal opinion of course and I would have never mentioned this at all but I wanted to let you know that I am okay, this isn't too "difficult" for me.

I would like you to provide some proof to support this comment.

You wrote: "I 'am' however, rather angry at the propaganda PR campaign being put out by certain individuals on their behalf, one that is designed to mislead and confuse. It is one that is vindictive and mean and serves to make the victims Meredith Kercher and her family, victims for a second time."


There is a lot of talk about the PR campaign but you never provide any proof of this. We are all thrown into the same group. This is done to simply try to discredit all of us with one swing.

Please try to do this with without referencing Barbie's book. Her book is very disrespectful to Meredith Kercher. I would hope that you do not support her book because of her treatment of Meredith. I personally found her opinions and descriptions of Meredith to be completely out of line.

We are all well aware that a PR firm was hired to organize public appearances. Please provide me any proof that you have that suggests that anything at all is being done online by any PR firm.

The truth is, the support that you see online for Amanda and Raffaele is an independent effort.

The creators of the following sites are all individuals that are not paid by anyone for their efforts and are no part of any PR campaign.

Injustice in Perugia, Science Spheres, The Ridiculous Case Against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, Friends of Amanda, View-from-Wilmington


I mentioned that I understand why many honest people feel that Amanda and Raffaele are guilty. Do you understand that there are many honest people that feel that Amanda and Raffaele have been wrongly convicted?


For your quote below to be true, you left out one part; "in my opinion"

You wrote: "Unfortunately, the evidence doesn't support your belief of a wrongful conviction."

 

[Alt+F4]

You are not my concern.

Might I ask, what is your concern?

 

[Alt+F4]

I mentioned that I understand why many honest people feel that Amanda and Raffaele are guilty. Do you understand that there are many honest people that feel that Amanda and Raffaele have been wrongly convicted?

Yes, but then why doesn't these same honest people state on their websites (here's a couple off the top of my head):

1. The fact that Raffaele himself has given reasons why his DNA would be found on both the bra clasp and large knife.

2. There is no evidence that Meredith and Amanda attended the Perugia Chocolate Festival together. Only Amanda's family has said this, Amanda didn't and neither did any of Meredith's friends in Italy. Amanda and Meredith were not close friends. Amanda didn't even attend Meredith's memorial service on Nov. 7.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Yes, but then why doesn't these same honest people state on their websites (here's a couple off the top of my head):

1. The fact that Raffaele himself has given reasons why his DNA would be found on both the bra clasp and large knife.

2. There is no evidence that Meredith and Amanda attended the Perugia Chocolate Festival together. Only Amanda's family has said this, Amanda didn't and neither did any of Meredith's friends in Italy. Amanda and Meredith were not close friends. Amanda didn't even attend Meredith's memorial service on Nov. 7.

1. Please tell me what Raffaele said in regard to the bra clasp. I have heard a few different scenarios. I am interested in hearing what you have heard. As far as the statement made about the knife, he was actually trying to figure out how Meredith's DNA could have gotten on the blade, not his own DNA as you stated. He was told that the DNA was on the blade. This seamed impossible to him but he was trying to think of any possible way that could have happened. Keep in mind, he made no mention of taking the knife over to Meredith's cottage. He was trying to think of any possibility that this could have happened in his apartment. His entire mindset had the knife in his own kitchen. It was a normal thought process to go through. There is nothing incriminating about this at all.

2. Why would I think that Amanda's family would lie about this? Do you just assume that everything that Amanda's family says is a lie?

Amanda Knox was arrested on November 6, 2007.

The memorial that you are talking about was 4 days after the murder. Amanda and Raffaele could not attend because they had been called in by the police.

Barbie tells an outright lie about the memorial service. Her book is a piece of tabloid trash.

Barbie Latza Nadeau (Daily Beast Interview 9-Apr-10)
"she was a strange character. She and Raffaele Sollecito didn't seem to show much emotion after the crime. They didn't attend the memorial service, instead they were in a lingerie shop."


The truth -

Peter Van Sant (48 Hrs A Long Way from Home 2 of 6)
"4 days after the murder no arrests. The students of Perugia organized a memorial service for Meredith Kercher. Noticably absent Amanda and Raffaele. They had been summoned to police headquarters."

 

[stilicho]

The memorial that you are talking about was 4 days after the murder. Amanda and Raffaele could not attend because they had been called in by the police.

How many memorials for Meredith were there? I thought AK and RS were noshing on pizza instead of attending the one they said they were going to.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

1. Please tell me what Raffaele said in regard to the bra clasp. I have heard a few different scenarios. I am interested in hearing what you have heard. As far as the statement made about the knife, he was actually trying to figure out how Meredith's DNA could have gotten on the blade, not his own DNA as you stated. He was told that the DNA was on the blade. This seamed impossible to him but he was trying to think of any possible way that could have happened. Keep in mind, he made no mention of taking the knife over to Meredith's cottage. He was trying to think of any possibility that this could have happened in his apartment. His entire mindset had the knife in his own kitchen. It was a normal thought process to go through. There is nothing incriminating about this at all.

2. Why would I think that Amanda's family would lie about this? Do you just assume that everything that Amanda's family says is a lie?

Amanda Knox was arrested on November 6, 2007.

The memorial that you are talking about was 4 days after the murder. Amanda and Raffaele could not attend because they had been called in by the police.

Barbie tells an outright lie about the memorial service. Her book is a piece of tabloid trash.

Barbie Latza Nadeau (Daily Beast Interview 9-Apr-10)
"she was a strange character. She and Raffaele Sollecito didn't seem to show much emotion after the crime. They didn't attend the memorial service, instead they were in a lingerie shop."


The truth -

Peter Van Sant (48 Hrs A Long Way from Home 2 of 6)
"4 days after the murder no arrests. The students of Perugia organized a memorial service for Meredith Kercher. Noticably absent Amanda and Raffaele. They had been summoned to police headquarters."

1) At what point in time did Meredith ever visit Raffaele's apartment, much less cook dinner with him and Amanda? If never, as you admit, why would he write that this is how her DNA found it's way to the knife? Keeping in mind, of course, that Meredith's DNA was not found on the tip of the knife (where it would be had his story been true), but on the flat of the blade.

2) What time was the Memorial? What time did Amanda and Raffaele arrive at the Police Station?

 

[Bruce Fischer]

How many memorials for Meredith were there? I thought AK and RS were noshing on pizza instead of attending the one they said they were going to.

Same day, They ate the incriminating pizza after they left the police station. The memorial was over at that point.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Same day, They ate the incriminating pizza after they left the police station. The memorial was over at that point.

So, they went to the Police Station, were interrogated, left, had pizza, and went back the same night?

 

[stilicho]

He was told that the DNA was on the blade. This seamed impossible to him but he was trying to think of any possible way that could have happened.

Obviously, then, it wasn't impossible to him. In fact, it was very clear to him:

"The fact that there is Meredith's DNA on the kitchen [knife] is because
once while cooking together, I shifted myself in the house handling
[it], I had the point on her hand, and immediately after I
apologized but [it] had nothing done to her. So the only real
explanation of the kitchen knife is this."

Why do you constantly disagree with Raffaele and Amanda? You have done this several times and haven't explained why you don't believe them.

Raffaele is clear that Meredith's DNA ought to be expected to be found on his knife. It's no great mystery to him. It is "the only real explanation".

 

[stilicho]

Same day, They ate the incriminating pizza after they left the police station. The memorial was over at that point.

Source?

 

[Alt+F4]

Please tell me what Raffaele said in regard to the bra clasp. I have heard a few different scenarios. I am interested in hearing what you have heard.

Raffaele's father stated that an explaination for his son's DNA being on the bra clasp was that Amanda and Meredith were such good friends they exchanged bras. I don't know if he made up this fiction on his own or it was something Raffaele told him. Even people on this forum have defended the "bra switching" story.

As far as the statement made about the knife, he was actually trying to figure out how Meredith's DNA could have gotten on the blade, not his own DNA as you stated.

Yes, sorry, Meredith's DNA, not his.

He was told that the DNA was on the blade.

Didn't he write in his prison diary that he heard about it on television?

This seamed impossible to him but he was trying to think of any possible way that could have happened. Keep in mind, he made no mention of taking the knife over to Meredith's cottage. He was trying to think of any possibility that this could have happened in his apartment. His entire mindset had the knife in his own kitchen. It was a normal thought process to go through. There is nothing incriminating about this at all.

I think it's quite incriminating that he made up an elaborate lie about Meredith coming to his apartment for dinner and he accidentially pricking her with the knife as to explain why her DNA was found on the knife.

Why would I think that Amanda's family would lie about this? Do you just assume that everything that Amanda's family says is a lie?

I didn't say they lied, I said there is no evidence that the girls attended the festival together. Why not just stick to what Amanda said?

Amanda and Raffaele could not attend because they had been called in by the police.

Evidence? And I don't mean a third hand report from an American television program.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

1) At what point in time did Meredith ever visit Raffaele's apartment, much less cook dinner with him and Amanda? If never, as you admit, why would he write that this is how her DNA found it's way to the knife? Keeping in mind, of course, that Meredith's DNA was not found on the tip of the knife (where it would be had his story been true), but on the flat of the blade.

2) What time was the Memorial? What time did Amanda and Raffaele arrive at the Police Station?

He was sitting in prison writing in a diary. He wasn't on the stand. He was trying to figure out how it could be possible. At that point he had absolutely no idea what happened. He wrote many things. He wrote the possibility that Amanda gave the knife to the killer or even that Amanda helped Kill Meredith. He was writing in a diary. He is thinking very random thoughts. So his theory that he pricked Meredith's finger would actually be an attempt to protect Amanda and then his next to statements would incriminate her. Are you seeing the randomness? I can't say it enough, it was a diary.

Raffaele wrote: "When I saw the knife on TV that was in my kitchen and on which they found traces of Amanda and Meredith, my heart jumped into my throat.

"I was in a total panic because I thought Amanda killed Meredith or maybe helped someone kill her."

"But Tiziano (his lawyer) told me to keep calm and that there was no way it could be the murder weapon. This is like living in some sort of nightmare reality show."

"I am getting continual panic attacks and heart flutters... I pray that Jesus will give me strength to face this situation."

"The police are making me out to be some sort of criminal genius but a criminal genius does not go to the police station wearing the shoes he committed the crime in and carrying a knife."