Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[BobTheDonkey]

It's well said. Not probative, in particular, of making this a "staged" burglary. For multiple reasons which have been mentioned several times throughout this thread.

Anyone who can't get over the hump, and continues to insist that the laptop would have been taken if this was a "genuine" robbery, I'll refer to an interesting case which was reported on tv the other day:

A man was murdered during the course of a botched robbery. And not only did the perpetrator not take the victim's laptop, he did not even take the money the victim had in his hand (preparing to turn it over to the gun wielding robber) at the moment he (the victim) was shot.

The victim was eventually found laying on the floor- murdered- with his arm outstretched and a wad of bills in his hand.

Ahh, but the glass on the laptop from the window breaking makes it unlikely that Rudy even considered stealing the laptop. And that's before we acknowledge all the other bits of evidence indicating this was a staged break-in.

 

[Danceme]

Bruce's photos of Filomena's room are definitely interesting and I was almost convinced. However, looking at the pile of supposed 'dirty laundry' by the wardrobe, I can't help but notice the yellow shirt on top which looks still folded as if just toppled out of the wardrobe. Other pieces nearby also look as if they could have been previously sitting folded in the wardrobe and also toppled out on top of yes, a messier pile that could have been there before. If it wasn't for the obviously still folded yellow shirt I might accept the pile was always there.

 

[Amazer]

It's well said. Not probative, in particular, of making this a "staged" burglary. For multiple reasons which have been mentioned several times throughout this thread.

Anyone who can't get over the hump, and continues to insist that the laptop would have been taken if this was a "genuine" robbery, I'll refer to an interesting case which was reported on tv the other day:

A man was murdered during the course of a botched robbery. And not only did the perpetrator not take the victim's laptop, he did not even take the money the victim had in his hand (preparing to turn it over to the gun wielding robber) at the moment he (the victim) was shot.

The victim was eventually found laying on the floor- murdered- with his arm outstretched and a wad of bills in his hand.

Let's suppose for the moment that Rudy did act alone... and that he did break in.

From all accounts given so far... all his alleged criminal acts in the past lacked a sexual component.

Why this sudden change... that is almost unheard of. How did Rudy go from breaking and entering for material gain to sexual assault and murder?

 

[stilicho]

On the night of the murder, Amanda expected to be working at Patrick's bar. She didn't decide to spend the night with Raffaele until after Patrick sent her a text message saying she wasn't needed at work.

This is sheer speculation on your part. Everyone in town knew it was going to be a slow night. Amanda knew that many of her housemates, including the boys downstairs, were going to be out of town or otherwise occupied on the night of All Saints Day.

In Catholic countries, it's one of those days where almost everything shuts down. It's a real stretch for honors student AK not to know this, especially since her boyfriend was a native Italian.

 

[stilicho]

The problem you get in many cases is where LE becomes so convinced and focused on the "target" that they ignore other possibilities and other leads. I think the discussion here is questioning the relative strength or weakness of the case evidence. I have not hidden my opinion on other websites that I think Amanda and Rafaelle are hiding something and have not been truthful. However, I think putting this picture up was (to use Bob's word), unprofessional. The police and investigators need to have an open mind while they are building their case. From a PR standpoint it is also counter productive. The questions now coming up seem to be hinting that the police may have made the evidence fit their target. This picture doesn't help disprove that picture, if you get the picture.

But the picture, and our knowledge of it, also demonstrates that the police certainly didn't make any attempt to conceal their belief that AK was a suspect in their investigation. If it were my office then I wouldn't want my folks to put up 'trophy' photos but I fail to see its relevance.

The forensics teams didn't suddenly 'find' massive evidence of AK all over the place. In fact, the most common FOA talking point is that they found so little evidence of her being in Meredith's room.

It would be interesting to know who was responsible for that 'wall of shame'. It could very well be someone with no real connection to the forensics teams. If the photo of Amanda is what this PR campaign is coming down to then it reeks of desperation.

 

[stilicho]

Lol. Ok then. I thought passing the "Evidence of God's Existence" thread was a benchmark in itself. Can you link me to the Deeper Than Primes thread? I usually just peruse the science and general skepticism sections.

This made me laugh. I think we're even past that Dutch holocaust-denier's thread but don't quote me.

 

[stilicho]

Anyone who can't get over the hump, and continues to insist that the laptop would have been taken if this was a "genuine" robbery, I'll refer to an interesting case which was reported on tv the other day:

Why did you put the word genuine in scare quotes? Are you becoming convinced that it wasn't a genuine robbery? Raffaele certainly didn't think it was a genuine robbery when he called 112. Amanda agreed that it was a most unusual robbery in her court testimony. Most unusual in that nothing was taken. So--not a robbery at all.

 

[Dan O.]

Why this sudden change... that is almost unheard of. How did Rudy go from breaking and entering for material gain to sexual assault and murder?

Almost unheard of?

Did you know that over half of all murderers at some point had committed a murder at a time when they previously had no history of murder?

(The exact percentage is closer to twice that)

 

[tsig]

Almost unheard of?

Did you know that over half of all murderers at some point had committed a murder at a time when they previously had no history of murder?

(The exact percentage is closer to twice that)

Works equally well against Amanda.

 

[Dan O.]

Works equally well against Amanda.

Except that substantial physical evidence places Rudy in the room in physical contact with the victim and proximate to the time of death.

The only physical evidence linking Amanda to the crime is that knife found in Raffaele's apartment where it belonged that could not have DNA on the blade but the police were so desperate to wrap up the case that they kept pushing the amplification well beyond the establishet protocol limit until they found a faint trace. There is no scientific basis to associate the trace of DNA that was found as coming from the knife because contamination cannot be ruled out.

 

[Amazer]

Except that substantial physical evidence places Rudy in the room in physical contact with the victim and proximate to the time of death.

The only physical evidence linking Amanda to the crime is that knife found in Raffaele's apartment where it belonged that could not have DNA on the blade but the police were so desperate to wrap up the case that they kept pushing the amplification well beyond the establishet protocol limit until they found a faint trace. There is no scientific basis to associate the trace of DNA that was found as coming from the knife because contamination cannot be ruled out.

This line of defense worked so well the first time....

 

[stilicho]

This line of defense worked so well the first time....

It would be really interesting to see Dan O's response if Raffaele throws Amanda under the bus on appeal. He's already done it once during the police interview on the evening of 05 NOV 2007.

If either of them are going to do it, it's Raffaele. His emotional state is reported to be rather frail. Amanda won't tell on him; she referred to her cellmates once as "roommates". For her, incarceration is just another of life's opportunities to experience, and it seems to suit her.

 

[Oliebol]

Something interesting from the PMF Massei report timeline:

13 OCTOBER 2007
Overnight, someone breaks into the law offices of Paolo Brocchi and Matteo Palazzoli by smashing a window with a big enough rock; there are pieces of glass everywhere on the floor, and their clothing has been tossed on top of the glass; initial inspection reveals a computer, a mobile phone, some USB memory keys, and a portable printer have been taken (p33).


pieces of glass on the floor and clothing tossed on top of the glass. sounds familiar?

 

[stilicho]

The timeline from the Massei Report has been translated:

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=42185#p42185


A couple of things spring to mind. It looks like Raffaele was back at his flat to close a pop-up on his computer at 00:58 and that Amanda was still at Raffaele's for the calls before 12:30 on 06 NOV 2007.

No wonder they were surprised to see the Polizia; they were expecting to see Filomena and walk her through the cottage to allow her to discover Meredith's body.

 

[stilicho]

pieces of glass on the floor and clothing tossed on top of the glass. sounds familiar?

Pieces of glass would be on the floor whenever a window is broken so that's not out of the ordinary. But you have the scene backwards for Filomena's room. Glass wasn't under the clothing. It was on top of the clothes and Filomena's laptop.

 

[Oliebol]

A couple of things spring to mind. It looks like Raffaele was back at his flat to close a pop-up on his computer at 00:58 and that Amanda was still at Raffaele's for the calls before 12:30 on 06 NOV 2007.

No wonder they were surprised to see the Polizia; they were expecting to see Filomena and walk her through the cottage to allow her to discover Meredith's body.

yes, Amanda was at Raffaele's place when Filomena called her at 12.12, 12.20

Then Amanda and Raffele walk to the cottage and find the broken window.

At 12.34 Filomena calls Amanda again and Amanda tells her about the broken window.
Filomena then calls her boyfriend who calls his friend and they all arrive at around 13.00 at the cottage.

 

[Fiona]

Amanda said that she was at the cottage in the call to Filomena at 12:08, and that she was going to get Raffaele. According to the timeline linked above she was at Raffaele's. She did not mention the broken window in that phone call. So far as I remember she told Filomena about the broken window in a call at 12:20 ( I may be wrong about that and I do not have time to check at present). Amanda was still at RS's for that call according to this time line, but it is possible the window was not mentioned till 12:34. I will have a look in more detail later this evening if no-one else has done that before then

 

[Oliebol]

Amanda said that she was at the cottage in the call to Filomena at 12:08, and that she was going to get Raffaele.

Amanda never said that. But that's what Filomena apparently understood.

According to the timeline linked above she was at Raffaele's. She did not mention the broken window in that phone call.

at 12.20 she was still at Raffaele's.
after that phone call Amanda and Raffaele left for the cottage.
by 12.34 Amanda had arrived at the cottage, discovered the broken window and told Filomena.

So far as I remember she told Filomena about the broken window in a call at 12:20 ( I may be wrong about that and I do not have time to check at present). Amanda was still at RS's for that call according to this time line, but it is possible the window was not mentioned till 12:34. I will have a look in more detail later this evening if no-one else has done that before then

according to Filomena it was in the final phone call. Filomena thought it was 12.45 but it really was 12.34.
it also doesn't make any sense to hear about the broken window and then hang around for quite a while before calling the boyfriend to get to the cottage. they weren't far away anyway and arrived at around 13.00.

 

[stilicho]

Amanda never said that. But that's what Filomena apparently understood.

Smoke and mirrors. What's important is that she called Meredith from Raffaele's before she spoke with Filomena at 12:08 and didn't say anything about it.

 

[RoseMontague]

This comment would seem to support Prof. Halkides claim that not all of the underlying DNA evidence (fsa files) were provided to the defense team. The source is again Chris Mellas but the other quote from Comodi seems to support the claim.

Chris Mellas, Knox's step-father who is currently in Perugia, said yesterday: "Our lawyers asked for everything, every file and record relating to the forensic testing. We were given some of the stuff, like what was on Meredith's shoes or a juice glass but not the full reports on the knife used or the bra-clasp."

Deputy prosecutor Manuela Comodi brushed off the request for all forensic documentation and added: "They have everything they need. That is enough."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...nda-Knoxs-lawyers-file-appeal-in-Perugia.html