Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Kestrel]

I see that Bruce is repeating the unsubstantiated FOA accusations that Rudy had a record as a break-in-through-the-window-thief. If so, why are those references not in the trial record?

Rudy's connection with a lawyers office burglary in Perugia was discussed at trial. When Rudy was arrested in Milan, he had a laptop and a cell phone stolen during that burglary. Entry was gained by breaking an upper floor window with a rock. After being released, Rudy went back to the office to apologize for having the laptop, but claimed he bought it in the Milan trains station. If Rudy didn't steal the laptop, how did he know were it was stolen from?

Another case discussed at trial involved Rudy entering a neighbor's house via an open window.

Rudy's history of entering uninvited via windows is in the trial record.

 

[shuttlt]

well, looking at the photos it's obvious that filomena was indeed very messy. but leaving so many clothes on the floor??? i dont know...and she wasn't even a student.

Amanda's own testimony indicates she thought the state of the room wasn't normal.

 

[Kestrel]

.
FOA made a bad choice when they decided to use the same experts as those who testified to the existence of the "magic bullet" which killed JF Kennedy and changed trajectory about 6 times.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_389264bc734cd868d1.jpg[/qimg]

Those of us who are not conspiracy theorists recognize what is wrong with that diagram.

It's off topic for this thread, but if you post that diagram in the JREF CT forum you should get a detailed answer.

 

[Moss]

well, looking at the photos it's obvious that filomena was indeed very messy. but leaving so many clothes on the floor??? i dont know...and she wasn't even a student.

Obvious troll is obvious. Have a <°)))o><

Because either the room was usually messy and then Amanda still pointed to the room being especially chaotic that day (and why would she do that?) or the room was really messy only that day. Which way do you want it?
And the attempt to negatively paint Philomena is painfully obvious and rather insulting to her. Especially given the scant evidence for your assertion.

 

[el buscador]

Did Filomena usually keep her door closed or open?

 

[odeed]

Just for my own interest were all the glass fragments found on the floor, were there any found on the bed or bedside table?


Also, was there any glass under the bed?

 

[Matthew Best]

.
FOA made a bad choice when they decided to use the same experts as those who testified to the existence of the "magic bullet" which killed JF Kennedy and changed trajectory about 6 times.

How about this post for "obvious troll is obvious"????

 

[Oliebol]

Because either the room was usually messy and then Amanda still pointed to the room being especially chaotic that day (and why would she do that?) or the room was really messy only that day. Which way do you want it?
And the attempt to negatively paint Philomena is painfully obvious and rather insulting to her. Especially given the scant evidence for your assertion.

I don't know about the clothes on the floor, but look at the table, the chair, the bedside table...the one with the toilet roll on it...unemptied bags, do you think the stagers did that?

 

[odeed]

I don't know about the clothes on the floor, but look at the table, the chair, the bedside table...the one with the toilet roll on it...unemptied bags, do you think the stagers did that?

Personal stuff in her bedroom thats not on the floor or in the way, she even stacks her boxes on top of the cupboard and hangs up her clothes, which is more than I do.

 

[colonelhall]

I don't understand this discussion. Didn't Amanda Knox say that the room had been turned over? Did Filomena contradict this?
I always thought that the testimony of the two women indicated that the room had been ransacked. That should be good enough, surely.

Only one other explanation. Amanda wanted to take the pressure off herself as being the slut of the house and Filomena was too embarrassed to admit to being untidy,, so they are both lying.

 

[el buscador]

I repeat, did Filomena usually keep her door open or closed? If she usually kept her door closed, then the room looks like it could have been tossed to someone not used to seeing inside the room.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Rudy's connection with a lawyers office burglary in Perugia was discussed at trial. When Rudy was arrested in Milan, he had a laptop and a cell phone stolen during that burglary. Entry was gained by breaking an upper floor window with a rock. After being released, Rudy went back to the office to apologize for having the laptop, but claimed he bought it in the Milan trains station. If Rudy didn't steal the laptop, how did he know were it was stolen from?

If Rudy had burglarized the law offices but then was let go, why go back and apologize for having the laptop? This sounds more like the actions of someone who was innocent of the crime.

Since the police questioned Rudy about the burglary, they undoubtedly told him the location of the law office.

Rudy may have very well burglarized the law offices. However, your reasoning is not very convincing.

 

[Malkmus]

Thanks for all this info, Bruce. I have to admit I had ignored your site until now because I assumed there was nothing new being presented (nothing wrong with that if it had been the case btw). But, having looked at the detailed photos you posted there I think it's obvious that the rock was thrown from the outside, not the other way around. Also casts serious doubt on the "ransacking".

Having seen the photos on Bruce's site, here are the points that stand out:

1. The rock is indeed inside a bag. First time I've actually "seen" this. If AK and RS staged the break-in and threw the rock from the inside, seems like they would have gone out of their way to at least place the rock strategically at the opposite side of the room. Why would they either place or leave the rock in the bag?

2. Throwing the rock at the window from the inside: Seems highly dangerous. You would either have to stand right in front of the window pane and smash the glass while holding the rock, likely slicing up your own hand in the process... or you would have to stand away and launch it at the window pane, which with the window open would mean standing in between the window and the desk and throwing it - highly unlikely in such a cramped space. And even if you were to attempt it, you again risk exploding glass right in your face.

3. The glass shards lead from the window back to the front of the room in a trajectory logical to being broken from the outside. If broken from the inside the glass would be projected toward the wardrobe. You can argue that they moved the glass shards, but then they should have also moved the rock.

4. The photos do clearly show a messy room. The only items "disturbed" are Filomena's clothes. So, unless the perpetrators were trying to make it look like they broke in and tried on a bunch of her clothes, this looks like nothing more than a messy room (and incidentally, very similar to my own room right now, end of the week, when I haven't bothered to clean it yet).

 

[Cobalt]

174 pages, this must be a trolling record.

 

[Malkmus]

Amanda's own testimony indicates she thought the state of the room wasn't normal.

A broken window isn't normal.

Amanda's testimony states that when she saw Filomena's room she noticed the broken window and a "big mess". The "big mess" was literally a portion of Filomena's clothes in a pile directly in front of the wardrobe, the overturned shopping bag (w/rock) below the window, and a travel/toiletries bag on the floor.

Also of note, and a likely explanation of the clothes in a pile on the floor: I don't see a laundry hamper in her room. So where would she put her dirty clothes? I guess in a pile on the floor.

"I saw that her window was broken and there was a big mess. That's when I thought, oh gosh, it was a robbery."

She states the reason she thought there was a robbery was because of the window:

"I saw that there was a broken window, so I did think there had
been a burglary."

 

[Ducky]

We back to the bras yet?

 

[odeed]

Thanks for all this info, Bruce. I have to admit I had ignored your site until now because I assumed there was nothing new being presented (nothing wrong with that if it had been the case btw). But, having looked at the detailed photos you posted there I think it's obvious that the rock was thrown from the outside, not the other way around. Also casts serious doubt on the "ransacking".

Having seen the photos on Bruce's site, here are the points that stand out:

1. The rock is indeed inside a bag. First time I've actually "seen" this. If AK and RS staged the break-in and threw the rock from the inside, seems like they would have gone out of their way to at least place the rock strategically at the opposite side of the room. Why would they either place or leave the rock in the bag?

The rock could of ended up where it was by being thrown from inside, with the window open and against the inside shutter (which I think was used in a way to stop glass shattering in the direction of the wardrobe).

2. Throwing the rock at the window from the inside: Seems highly dangerous. You would either have to stand right in front of the window pane and smash the glass while holding the rock, likely slicing up your own hand in the process... or you would have to stand away and launch it at the window pane, which with the window open would mean standing in between the window and the desk and throwing it - highly unlikely in such a cramped space. And even if you were to attempt it, you again risk exploding glass right in your face.

And there would be a danger of glass falling on someone throwing the rock from outside. Also how does glass explode back into the face, only thing I read about was smallest shards spray backwards, and only a short distance.

3. The glass shards lead from the window back to the front of the room in a trajectory logical to being broken from the outside. If broken from the inside the glass would be projected toward the wardrobe. You can argue that they moved the glass shards, but then they should have also moved the rock.

From what i remember about the discussions on the theory that it was thrown from outside, the internal shutter was partially closed and was hit by the rock (which is how it ended up by the window), so how did the glass get across the room, also from the photographs large fragments of glass are traveled as far (in some cases further) as some of of the smaller pieces which I think would go against the conservation of momentum.

4. The photos do clearly show a messy room. The only items "disturbed" are Filomena's clothes. So, unless the perpetrators were trying to make it look like they broke in and tried on a bunch of her clothes, this looks like nothing more than a messy room (and incidentally, very similar to my own room right now, end of the week, when I haven't bothered to clean it yet).

Neither you nor I can know what state the room was in before the incident, but I am starting to think that some people want to Filomena in on the conspiracy to frame Knox.

 

[odeed]

We back to the bras yet?

I think Fiona mentioned something about her bras, a page or two back.

 

[Malkmus]

The rock could of ended up where it was by being thrown from inside, with the window open and against the inside shutter (which I think was used in a way to stop glass shattering in the direction of the wardrobe).

Yes, it could have. But, imo, it would seem unnatural to leave it in the bag and not place it somewhere visible on the floor.

And there would be a danger of glass falling on someone throwing the rock from outside. Also how does glass explode back into the face, only thing I read about was smallest shards spray backwards, and only a short distance.

There's a big difference between throwing a rock at a second floor window, several feet away from you and throwing a rock at a window directly in front of you. You have plenty of time to throw it from outside and get out of the way of any glass that might fall on you. I think you need to look at the photos of the room and see that to throw the rock from inside you would have to be uncomfortably close to the exploding glass. You say yourself that small shards spray backwards, and the distance is indeed short, if thrown from inside the room.

From what i remember about the discussions on the theory that it was thrown from outside, the internal shutter was partially closed and was hit by the rock (which is how it ended up by the window), so how did the glass get across the room, also from the photographs large fragments of glass are traveled as far (in some cases further) as some of of the smaller pieces which I think would go against the conservation of momentum.

The force of the rock pushed the panel open and sent part of the glass flying inward as it opened and other parts to fall on the sill. The parts on the sill probably fell off momentarily after the shattering occurred. Had it not caused the panel to swing completely open, then I could see how the glass would have just fallen on the sill and directly below the window.

Neither you nor I can know what state the room was in before the incident, but I am starting to think that some people want to Filomena in on the conspiracy to frame Knox.

As I pointed out, the "mess" is nothing more than Filomena's clothes on the floor. Since there was no laundry hamper in her room, it's safe to say she kept her dirty laundry in a pile on the floor.

 

[Malkmus]

And then you claim that this rock still has enough momentum to push both the paper bag and the hand bag over, with yet enough power left to push the paper bag over the purse/hand bag. Can you educate me on the physics involved here? How does a stone which has lost all it's forward momentum pick up enough power to do what you claim it does? It can't be the momentum it picked while falling down from the shutter, that would at best cause the stone to fall into the bag and come to rest there.

Have you looked at the photo of the rock in the bag? This wasn't a small rock. It's obvious that the act of it falling into the bag by gravity alone would cause it to topple over. The speed doesn't matter. You could stand over the bag, drop it in, and it would fall over. The bag was holding some clothes. If it had been holding something of substantial weight, I could see your point.