9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[Nonpareil]

The truth or falsity of the soap claim is unimportant. It has nothing to do with whether or not any homicidal gassings - or other types of murder - took place during the Holocaust. What was done with the bodies afterwards is unimportant, except in the way that they were disposed of. Whether or not soap was made out of human fat has nothing to do with whether or not they were killed in the first place.

 

[9/11-investigator]

1) I gave you Graf's current address for correspondence, (contact via PO Box 19395/7161, Tehran). You will note that Tehran is not in Russia. I didn't get his address of Wikipedia.

Your logic is hopeless, he lived in Teheran first after he fled from Switserland, maybe he forgot to cancel this PO-box. When was the last time you send him a letter to that PO-box? Everybody can have a PO-box everywhere!

He doesn't have a Moscow address. As you know, Graf has an Interpol arrest warrant on him and Russia is a member.

Correction, he does not have a Moscow address you know of. An interpol arrest warant for what!!?? For not believing in the H-word? LOL. The Ruskies are no longer the Orwellians they used to be and the likes of you have become.

2) Graf must also pay 1,000 francs to a Basel theology professor as compensation or atonement for having mailed him a copy of one of his books with an allegedly offensive inscription.

I am shocked! He did what? He send him a book for free with a note the poor professor found 'offensive'? The horror! Did he call him Arschl*ch ? Did he get a heart attack, the poor sob? Let's file for an international arrest warrant! He called somebody Arschl*ch, now Matthew wants to throw him in jail. OMG. These are the characters we have to deal with. We run the risk of having a new Stalinist dictatorship where you are thrown in the gulag for the slightest wrong word if we give them a chance. You want to meet an archetypical Bolshy, meet Matthew.

(Graff was doing more than just writing books wasn't he?)

Excellent observation Matthew, he did not indeed! He also called somebody Arschl*ch as well. You can't make this up.

 

[TSR]

Dr Neander, I think, ...

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No one cares what you *think*.

You made statements of 'fact' about Dr Neander.

Can you support them or not?
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[George 152]

Today is Holocaust Memorial Day.
In memory of all those who the nazis murdered.

 

[VonKleist]

Today is Holocaust Memorial Day.
In memory of all those who the nazis murdered.

Is it? In the UK I'm pretty sure it's in late January.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Today is Holocaust Memorial Day.
In memory of all those who the nazis murdered.

When again is it Gulag Memorial Day ? I have forgotten the date. After all 20 millions are estimated to have died in these camps. For some 'mysterious' reasons the Anglos are not interested. Are not allowed to be interested by their masters.

And when is the Holomoder Remembrance Day ?
The Holomodor as we all remember was the organized starvation of millions of Ukrainians (and others) on orders of Kaganovic (not a Norwegian).

And when is it remembrance day of the Armenian genocide as organized by the 'Young turks' from Tessaloniki (where Sarko has his roots also), not Norwegians either.

Rethorical question, don't bother. Instead we are remembering an event of which in a very telling declaration made in Sept. 25, 1945, from a son of an American prosecutor T.J.Dodd in Neurenberg, done in all naivite, the following was said:

“Consider these Sept. 25, 1945, observations from Tom Dodd, who would emerge as second in command on the American prosecution team:
“You know how I have despised anti-Semitism. You know how strongly I feel
toward those who preach intolerance of any kind. With that knowledge — you will understand when I tell you that this staff is about seventy-five percent Jewish. Now my point is that the Jews should stay away from this trial — for their own sake. For — mark this well — the charge ‘a war for the Jews’ is still being made and in the post-war years it will be made again and again. The too large percentage of Jewish men and women here will be cited as proof of this charge. Sometimes it seems that the Jews will never learn about these things.”"

Indeed mr Dodd.

Edited by Locknar: 

Reference added; please ensure you properly reference quoted material.

 

[VonKleist]

When again is it Gulag Memorial Day ? I have forgotten the date.

October 30th.

And when is the Holomoder (sic) Remembrance Day ?

3rd Saturday in November.

And when is it remembrance day of the Armenian genocide

24th April.

 

[TSR]

< snip off topic crap >

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If you want those memorials, why don't you get off your butt and start a campaign for such to be declared?

Or is all the running away from the fact that your heroes rounded up children and shot them in cold blood taking up too much of your time?

Or perhaps the problem is you having to stay by the phone, waiting for a call to tell you how to spin the fact that Hoess was cross examined @ Nuremberg?

No, wait -- I've got it: you're holding your breath until the basics of chemistry change so as to support that charlatan, Leuchter?
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[Nonpareil]

Let's see. How many of 9/11's posts in this thread have actually dealt with the topic at hand, and how many have dealt with his constant attempts to derail? I wonder what the ratio is. Probably approaching zero.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Your logic is hopeless, he lived in Teheran first after he fled from Switserland, maybe he forgot to cancel this PO-box. When was the last time you send him a letter to that PO-box? Everybody can have a PO-box everywhere!

You have to keep paying for post office boxes. He is paying for his post office box in Tehran. If he was working as a commercial translator in Moscow then the Moscow Institute of Human rights would have found his address or advertisments or some evidence that he did commercial translations. None exist because he is not in Russia. What visa do you think he has to work in Russia? He married a Belorussian and not a Russian.

Correction, he does not have a Moscow address you know of. An interpol arrest warant for what!!?? For not believing in the H-word? LOL. The Ruskies are no longer the Orwellians they used to be and the likes of you have become.

He absconded from serving an 18month sentence in Switzerland. What working visa do you think he has in Russia? The Moscow Institute of Human rights also wants to know how is meant to be working in Russia. They send letters to his Tehran PO Box. His russian website closed down some years ago. http://www.juergen-graf.nm.ru/

I am shocked! He did what? He send him a book for free with a note the poor professor found 'offensive'? The horror! Did he call him Arschl*ch ? Did he get a heart attack, the poor sob? Let's file for an international arrest warrant! He called somebody Arschl*ch, now Matthew wants to throw him in jail. OMG. These are the characters we have to deal with. We run the risk of having a new Stalinist dictatorship where you are thrown in the gulag for the slightest wrong word if we give them a chance. You want to meet an archetypical Bolshy, meet Matthew.

I don't want to throw him in gaol. His fellow Switzerland countrymen want to throw him in gaol based on their laws. I just want to help the Swiss get him when he next crosses a border.

 

[little grey rabbit]

The truth or falsity of the soap claim is unimportant. It has nothing to do with whether or not any homicidal gassings - or other types of murder - took place during the Holocaust. What was done with the bodies afterwards is unimportant, except in the way that they were disposed of. Whether or not soap was made out of human fat has nothing to do with whether or not they were killed in the first place.

Its interesting in as much as it gives insight into how history is formed in human societies and how hard myths can be to disproved and what power structures may exist that uphold them.

 

[TSR]

Its interesting in as much as it gives insight into how ...

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.. much deniers are willing to lie and libel others in their lame attempts to deny history.

Are you ready to *cite* Dr. Neander, or concede that you were lying when you said he had refuted Prof. Stolyhwo's study?
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[Matthew Ellard]

This claim of scientific testing has not been published in any kind of journal, peer reviewed or otherwise.
Dr. Joachim Neander, expert on the subject who has published in German Studies Review on the subject has been in personal communications with the academic on the subject and says that for at least one sample they in fact could not distinguish between human or pig fat with the methodology used.

The claim is unverified.

Not only did Neander not say that, but where did the pigs come from? The Danzig Anatomical Institute didn't have pigs and the witness statements all say human. Are you claiming Dr Neander thinks there were pigs at the Institute?

Quote William Neely
"A machine for the manufacture of soap was completed some time in March or April 1944. The British prisoners of war had constructed the building in which it was housed in June 1942. The machine itself was installed by a civilian firm from Danzig by the name of AJRD. It consisted, as far as I remember, of an electrically heated tank in which bones of the corpses were mixed with some acid and melted down".

Quote John Henry Witten / International Military Tribunal / USSR document 264
"Corpses which had not been discected to any great extent had the tissue removed from the stomach, forearm and legs. Owing to the preservative mixture in which they had been stored the tissue came away from the bones very easily. The tissue was put into a boiler about the size of a kitchen table. After boiling the tissue was poured into white trays........The students told me that it was being used to make soap and that a chemical had to be added....."

Quote Sigmund Mazur
"I boiled the soap out of the bodies of women and men. The process of boiling alone took several days -- from 3 to 7. During two manufacturing processes, in which I directly participated, more than 25 kilograms of soap were produced. The amount of human fat necessary for these two processes was 70 to 80 kilograms collected from some 40 bodies. The finished soap then went to Professor Spanner,

 

[little grey rabbit]

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.. much deniers are willing to lie and libel others in their lame attempts to deny history.

Are you ready to *cite* Dr. Neander, or concede that you were lying when you said he had refuted Prof. Stolyhwo's study?
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Where did I say he "refuted" Prof. Stolywho's "study"? Given Prof. Stolywho's "study" is unpublished, there is nothing to refute.

Dr Neander stated that through personal communication he discovered that Prof. Stolywho's "study" states - to the extent it exists at all - that it was not able to conclude that the lipid profile was one that could not have derived from pig fat for at least

You are welcome to produce an Prof. Stolywho's report on this "study" to a standard suitable for peer review and contest Dr Neander's claim.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Not only did Neander not say that, but where did the pigs come from? The Danzig Anatomical Institute didn't have pigs and the witness statements all say human. Are you claiming Dr Neander thinks there were pigs at the Institute?

I have no idea what the Danzig Anatomical Institute had or what Dr Neander thinks it had, you had better ask him that yourself.

For that matter can you either provide a copy of the Stolywho report or a verified archival reference number of Soviet Soap in the Hague archives in order to ensure that there was a bona fide chain of custody of the Greuelpropaganda Soap Story?

 

[TSR]

Where did I say he "refuted" Prof. Stolywho's "study"? Given Prof. Stolywho's "study" is unpublished, there is nothing to refute.

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And yet you say

Dr. Joachim Neander, expert on the subject who has published in German Studies Review on the subject has been in personal communications with the academic on the subject and says that for at least one sample they in fact could not distinguish between human or pig fat with the methodology used.

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Dr Neander stated that through personal communication he discovered that Prof. Stolywho's "study" states - to the extent it exists at all - that it was not able to conclude that the lipid profile was one that could not have derived from pig fat for at least

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.. at least ... ?

Once again, you fail to actually *cite* Dr. Neander on the topic and so a reasonable assumption is that you cannot, given that you were been asked to when you first made the claim.
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You are welcome to produce an Prof. Stolywho's report on this "study" to a standard suitable for peer review and contest Dr Neander's claim.

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And you are welcome to offer citation in support of your crap, or invite Dr Neander here to personally confirm your claims about him, since I have no reason to believe that he ever made such a claim..

I shan't be holding my breath.
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[Matthew Ellard]

I have no idea what the Danzig Anatomical Institute had or what Dr Neander thinks it had, you had better ask him that yourself.

I did. I read his paper. http://www.jstor.org/pss/27667954 or http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/dachau/legends/NeanderSoap049.htm (in German)
Despite Neander being a holocaust revisionist his paper supports what I have stated. They experimented using human fat to make soap. Are you disputing him as well?

For that matter can you either provide a copy of the Stolywho report or a verified archival reference number of Soviet Soap in the Hague archives in order to ensure that there was a bona fide chain of custody of the Greuel propaganda Soap Story?

You are suggesting the Warsaw Agricultural University in Poland, the defunct NKVD in Russia and the Hague War crimes tribunal conspired over 60 years to test "planted human soap" in 2005? That's brilliant. Saggy move over.

You can read the evidence No# on the jar.
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/dachau/legends/legpix/soapjarpanbg.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/stutthof/soap-photos/ussr-393-middle.jpg

Here is a rare photo of the Danzig room (see the boiler from ADJR)
http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Images/Spanner2.gif

 

[little grey rabbit]

Once again, you fail to actually *cite* Dr. Neander on the topic and so a reasonable assumption is that you cannot, given that you were been asked to when you first made the claim.

Actually I gave you a summary of Dr Neander's and mine online discussion on another forum. I gave it because I thought you were interested in the subject and for no other reason. I am not your lackey to go run and fetch for you.

There is no need to cite this discussion to refute Prof. Stolywho's report, because no report exists in the public sphere no refute.

Can you provide Prof. Stolywho's report or a reference to a publicly available holding?

Can you even show any evidence, like an archival holding number, that Soviet Soap even exists in the ICJ archives in the Hague to test?

 

[little grey rabbit]

I have no idea what the Danzig Anatomical Institute had or what Dr Neander thinks it had, you had better ask him that yourself.

I did. I read his paper. http://www.jstor.org/pss/27667954 or http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/dachau/legends/NeanderSoap049.htm (in German)
Despite Neander being a holocaust revisionist his paper supports what I have stated. They experimented using human fat to make soap. Are you disputing him as well?

Dr Neander is not a revisionist and it is slanderous to accuse him as such (slanderous to revisionists, I might add).

Dr Neander does not claim soap was made for experimental purposes, he believes that a side product of preparing skeletons might be a soap like product.

He is wrong in this belief, which I think he now accepts. His claim is that there was soap produced, but soap is made in every anatomical lab that uses to alkali maceration in skeleton preparation.

You are suggesting the Warsaw Agricultural University in Poland, the defunct NKVD in Russia and the Hague War crimes tribunal conspired over 60 years to test "planted human soap" in 2005? That's brilliant. Saggy move over.

Given I said nothing like that, I wonder if you are posting here drunk?

Can you give me an archival reference number for the Soviet Soap in the ICJ archives today?

 

[TSR]

Actually I gave you a summary of Dr Neander's and mine online discussion on another forum.

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And given the nature of your rhetoric here and elsewhere, I have no reason to think that your summary accurately reflects Dr Neander's opinions, and Matthew's links reinforce the idea that you may not be being completely accurate.

And you mistake the purpose of citation: it is not for *me*, it is for *you*. Having made the claim, it is your burden of proof. Not your burden of paraphrase, not your burden of "I think," your burden of proof.

Or continue to run away from actually citing the evidence, and I will be content to point, and laugh, and make clear your ongoing habit of making unfounded assertions.

Your choice.
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