Tarot cards, they are AMAZING!

[arthwollipot]

Traditionally you should never buy your own tarot - someone else should buy it and give it to you as a gift. But that's just superstition.

 

[whatthebutlersaw]

I have owned a couple of decks in my days and did a bit of party trickery with them. As with so many else people perceived me as fairly accurate.

I remember once laying a spread for a friend who was moving to an other town to study for a while and when she came back she was amazed that I had predicted that she would have difficulty with a woman who seemed to have it in for her, because that was exactly what had happened - in this case a room mate had been inexplicably hostile.

She was too modest to realize that my prediction was very likely to come true for any cute, 6ft blonde ex model who goes off to learn shoe design.

 

[whatthebutlersaw]

If the test is officially shut down, would it break the integrity of the OP to post the existing readings anyway?

We needen't ask for test people feedback and you wouldn't have to refresh your memory on the agreement. I think it would still be educational to see if the vague/specific ratio, for example, is as promised.

 

[Akhenaten]

Traditionally you should never buy your own tarot - someone else should buy it and give it to you as a gift. But that's just superstition.

If I give someone a wallet or purse as a present, I'll always put a coin in it first. It's tradition.

A very dear friend asked me recently if I identified myself with Tevye, and I laughed at the suggestion. Now I'm just looking at myself and going, "Hmm . . ."

Funny world, eh?

I have owned a couple of decks in my days and did a bit of party trickery with them. As with so many else people perceived me as fairly accurate.

I remember once laying a spread for a friend who was moving to an other town to study for a while and when she came back she was amazed that I had predicted that she would have difficulty with a woman who seemed to have it in for her, because that was exactly what had happened - in this case a room mate had been inexplicably hostile.

She was too modest to realize that my prediction was very likely to come true for any cute, 6ft blonde ex model who goes off to learn shoe design.

I had a friend at one time whom I would allow to read the cards for me.

She invariably predicted that I would soon be locked in passionate embrace with my heart's desire and I invariably proved her accuracy. I think this almost supports Arthwollipot's view of how the Tarot might have a practical purpose.

If the test is officially shut down, would it break the integrity of the OP to post the existing readings anyway?

We needen't ask for test people feedback and you wouldn't have to refresh your memory on the agreement. I think it would still be educational to see if the vague/specific ratio, for example, is as promised.

What a great idea! I'd be more than willing to lay off the cynicism for a while if Arti is willing to do this for us.

 

[Hannibal]

Using an external deck means that you get images that your subconscious might not choose to feed to yourself.

My first post since 2004 - holy balls!!!

Anyway, I was told that ``The Tarot is like a computer that recognises you`` - which seems to be the same principle that you outline here.

Most occult practices I have encountered simply appear to be a way of focusing yourself by abstract means. If you believe that this is meaningless then you will be right; you are also right if you believe it works.

Neither of these assumes supernatural powers or lack thereof on the part of the cards. Personally I think if `Boggle` helps you focus then more power to your elbow

Good to be back! What happened to Ron Decker BTW?

 

[MikeSun5]

The "power" of Tarot (such as it is) is the power of symbolism. ...Tarot, like a coin flip, is a decision-making tool. ...

True, but your description really only covers a person doing a self-reading. The person getting the reading depends on the tarot reader to interpret the images for them, and it's up to the "victim" to place meaning. The symbolism of the tarot is usually lost on the average person, and that person relies on the reader to let them know why it's important that the Sun card came up after 7 of Cups. Astrology is the same in that the victim "needs" an astrologer to tell them why it's important for their love life that Venus is in conjunction with Mars, or some such BS.

While you make a good point, I think that most people who have not studied the tarot view it in a very similar light to astrology: you're told something, later on something else happens, and you connect the two events and give the credit to your mysterious horoscope/tarot reading.

That's why I see no difference between the two. Tarot and astrology are interesting, but no more helpful to a person than a bag of magic beans.

 

[arthwollipot]

True, but your description really only covers a person doing a self-reading. The person getting the reading depends on the tarot reader to interpret the images for them, and it's up to the "victim" to place meaning."

Not really. When I read the cards, I'd say something like "well, the nine of swords represents overpreparation for an anticipated trouble," and they would say "Oh, that must mean the job interview I've got coming up!" I needed to to very little actual interpretation.

The symbolism of the tarot is usually lost on the average person, and that person relies on the reader to let them know why it's important that the Sun card came up after 7 of Cups. Astrology is the same in that the victim "needs" an astrologer to tell them why it's important for their love life that Venus is in conjunction with Mars, or some such BS.

The difference is that the tarot is illustrated. There's a picture that tells a story. There's no such picture with "Mars in trinary with Saturn". The astrologer needs to make up meanings for such things - in Tarot the meaning is there in pictures.

While you make a good point, I think that most people who have not studied the tarot view it in a very similar light to astrology: you're told something, later on something else happens, and you connect the two events and give the credit to your mysterious horoscope/tarot reading.

That's why I see no difference between the two. Tarot and astrology are interesting, but no more helpful to a person than a bag of magic beans.

They're alike in that people tend to read more into them than is actually there. But in reality they're quite different, in style and in method.

 

[Pup]

Originally Posted by MikeSun5
True, but your description really only covers a person doing a self-reading. The person getting the reading depends on the tarot reader to interpret the images for them, and it's up to the "victim" to place meaning."

Not really. When I read the cards, I'd say something like "well, the nine of swords represents overpreparation for an anticipated trouble," and they would say "Oh, that must mean the job interview I've got coming up!" I needed to to very little actual interpretation.

The difference is that the tarot is illustrated. There's a picture that tells a story. There's no such picture with "Mars in trinary with Saturn". The astrologer needs to make up meanings for such things - in Tarot the meaning is there in pictures.

I don't get it. That's exactly what MikeSun5 said. When I look at tarot cards, knowing nothing about them, I don't get any meaning from them, any more than "Mars in trinary with Saturn" means anything to me. I might know that Mars usually represents war and the picture is of a vaguely medieval-looking woman, but that's it.

So if a tarot reader says "well, the nine of swords represents overpreparation for an anticipated trouble," that's interpreting a picture for the victim, and if the victim says "Oh, that must mean the job interview I've got coming up!" that's an example of the victim placing meaning.

The tarot reading now appears to have some special insight into a part of the victim's life that the tarot reader would have no normal way of knowing. It would be natural for the victim to be thinking, "so I'm overpreparing, I guess. I wonder what I should be doing instead?"

Whether the tarot reader wants to leverage that position to take advantage of the victim or not is his own choice, but he's there.

 

[arthwollipot]

I don't get it. That's exactly what MikeSun5 said. When I look at tarot cards, knowing nothing about them, I don't get any meaning from them, any more than "Mars in trinary with Saturn" means anything to me. I might know that Mars usually represents war and the picture is of a vaguely medieval-looking woman, but that's it.

So if a tarot reader says "well, the nine of swords represents overpreparation for an anticipated trouble," that's interpreting a picture for the victim, and if the victim says "Oh, that must mean the job interview I've got coming up!" that's an example of the victim placing meaning.

Yes, I guess it is.

 

[Hannibal]

Exactly - they are a focus point for thought process when you are stuck

 

[Aquila]

I would be interested to hear some skeptical thoughts on Tarot cards.

If you're going to be skeptical about tarot, I think you should consider the mystical/occult side of it, which is mainly concerned with the major arcana, and how the cards/"keys" fit on the kabbalistic Tree Of Life. This part is not so much used for divination but as a meditation tool for spiritual understanding:

http://www.joyousworld.com/qabalah/index.html

 

[Nonpareil]

If you're going to be skeptical about tarot, I think you should consider the mystical/occult side of it, which is mainly concerned with the major arcana, and how the cards/"keys" fit on the kabbalistic Tree Of Life. This part is not so much used for divination but as a meditation tool for spiritual understanding:

http://www.joyousworld.com/qabalah/index.html

So, like astrology, they do nothing.

 

[Sledge]

If you're going to be skeptical about tarot, I think you should consider the mystical/occult side of it

Bwuh? Why?

 

[Olowkow]

I prefer nggàm. Much less mystical, and no occult to worry about. Just accurate predictions and divination on the spot. I know what you're thinking, that perhaps this method does not fit on the kabbalistic Tree Of Life, well you'd be wrong. This technique is also far superior to the Magic 8 Ball.

Basic techniques of Mambila Spider Divination

To begin divination a stone is rubbed around the top of the pot as the diviner blows into it saying yuo yuo (come out, come out).

Now how much skill could that take?

 

[Akhenaten]

Just when I thought I could see some sense in what Arthwollipot was saying, things have gotten totally silly again.

If you're going to be skeptical about tarot . . .

That's as meaningless as saying "If you're going to be skeptical about apples . . ."

. . . I think you should consider the mystical/occult side of it . . .

There is no such thing as the mystical/occult side of it. They're cards with pretty pictures on them. Only this, and nothing more.

. . . which is mainly concerned with the major arcana,

The what???

Anyway, I bid ten no-trumps, so I win.

. . . and how the cards/"keys" fit on the kabbalistic Tree Of Life.

OK, I was willing to Google "major arcana", just on the off-chance that it really was something, but "kabbalistic Tree Of Life" is so obviously bogus that I can save myself the time and trouble.

If there were such a thing as a Field Guide for Woo Spotters it would be chock-full of meaningless phrases like this.

This part is not so much used for divination but as a meditation tool for spiritual understanding:

As I mentioned at the start of this post, the use of the the cards as an aid to making decisions was starting to make sense as Arthwollipot was explaining it, now it's gone all airy-fairy again. You broke it.

[link redacted]

I'm afraid that sites with names like "www.joyousworld.com" are automatically filtered by the Commonsense-o-matic™ extension I have installed on my thought processor. This marvellous add-on prevents me from wandering outside the bounds of reality and I highly recommend that everyone install it.

 

[arthwollipot]

So if a tarot reader says "well, the nine of swords represents overpreparation for an anticipated trouble," that's interpreting a picture for the victim, and if the victim says "Oh, that must mean the job interview I've got coming up!" that's an example of the victim placing meaning.

I'd just like to make an addition here. As noted before, I read both Tarot and runes. Tarot was a lot easier because the interpretation was a lot more placed on the querent. With runes, the rune thrower has to basically memorise the meaning of each different symbol. The tarot has the meaning pictured right there on the card. I could show a card to the querent and simply ask "what does this picture mean to you?" Rorschach-style.

If you're going to be skeptical about tarot, I think you should consider the mystical/occult side of it, which is mainly concerned with the major arcana, and how the cards/"keys" fit on the kabbalistic Tree Of Life.

Only by that one particular school of Tarot. It's entirely possible to use Tarot without considering anything of the sort.

 

[MikeSun5]

OK, I was willing to Google "major arcana", just on the off-chance that it really was something

The "major" arcana are the numbered trump cards in tarot - as opposed to the cards with suits. For example, in a normal 21st century Bicycle deck, the jokers could be considered major arcana.

I'd just like to make an addition here. As noted before, I read both Tarot and runes. Tarot was a lot easier because the interpretation was a lot more placed on the querent. With runes, the rune thrower has to basically memorise the meaning of each different symbol. The tarot has the meaning pictured right there on the card. I could show a card to the querent and simply ask "what does this picture mean to you?" Rorschach-style.

That actually brings up a good point. I think the reason tarot gets folks like Aquila all atwitter is because it's so far reaching in it's readings. With runes, you're limited to the meanings of the symbols. With tarot, you can use the cards' actual meanings, the imagery on the cards, or both. You're able to get way more hits like that when you're cold reading.

Personally, I would use a Minchiate deck which actually includes the 12 zodiac signs, the 4 elements, as well as a few other cards not present in "normal" tarot. That gets even more hits. Especially if you pull the victim's zodiac sign or one of someone they know.

It's interesting to hear what people use tarot cards for. I'd heard of people trying to actually play tarocchi or divine the future, but I hadn't really heard of people using the cards to make personal life decisions or to aid in meditation. To me, tarot has always been more of a psychological experiment. They've always been an excellent way to show how gullible and desperate people can be. I've never found a more perfect way to demonstrate confirmation bias, false-synchronicity, and apophenia. I don't even think that most people believe tarot can influence or predict anything whatsoever - they just really really want it to.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Tarot reading is so like Astrology,all so vague for anything to seem like it's speaking directly to you.

Please get rid of your cards while you're still a FULL DECK

Yeah, because spirits who divine secret prophesies from a fraudulent volume like Teh Book of Revelations is so much more valid in determining the future.

 

[arthwollipot]

It's interesting to hear what people use tarot cards for. I'd heard of people trying to actually play tarocchi or divine the future, but I hadn't really heard of people using the cards to make personal life decisions or to aid in meditation. To me, tarot has always been more of a psychological experiment. They've always been an excellent way to show how gullible and desperate people can be. I've never found a more perfect way to demonstrate confirmation bias, false-synchronicity, and apophenia. I don't even think that most people believe tarot can influence or predict anything whatsoever - they just really really want it to.

I've always used Tarot for what I described - to help people make decisions.

 

[Tarot_Is_A_Card_Game!]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171450

This thread might also be of interest