Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[Akhenaten]

I have not read all the replies here. I want to say that I am reading "Godless" by (Ex) Rev. Dan Barker who renounced Religion after 19 years as a preacher. He came to the logical conclusion that most of the Bible is crap.

Barker was one of the speakers at the Global Atheists Convention last month in Melbourne, Australia along with Richard Dawkins and PZ Myers plus more speakers.

I can highly recommend his book "Godless".

Thanks. Cobber. I'll add that to my reading list with Ehrman.

I'm so far behind with my reading it's not funny. (Too much Flight Sim. )


Cheers

 

[amb]

Non sequitur to my post




How can you find evidence of miracles performed 2000 years ago?

And what is your source he was a "Christian" before he began his 15 year research. Websites say he went to show the Bible was incorrect. To my knowledge he found no evidence the bible was incorrect.

DOC. Why don't we have miracles today every now and then? I don't mean the odd cancer sufferer who goes into remission by completely natural means. Say, a miracle like the AIDS epidemic in Sub Sahara Africa suddenly been cured by no known explanation. That would do for christianity what a million god botheres can ever achieve.

 

[amb]

Have a look at the gospel of Mark, which is the source of Luke and Mathew. Read the article.

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblegospelofmark/a/audience.htm?nl=1

 

[eccles]

Thanks. Cobber. I'll add that to my reading list with Ehrman.

I'm so far behind with my reading it's not funny. (Too much Flight Sim. )


Cheers

My problem along with following NASA STS-131 and backing up all my stuff on the Desktop ready for the WIN XP install which is under way now.

 

[eccles]

Have a look at the gospel of Mark, which is the source of Luke and Mathew. Read the article.

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblegospelofmark/a/audience.htm?nl=1

And read this:
http://atheism.about.com/od/biblegospelofmark/a/author.htm
"The text of the Gospel According to Mark does not specifically identify anyone as the author. Not even “Mark” is identified as the author — in theory, “Mark” could have simply related a series of events and stories to someone else who collected them, edited them, and set them down in the gospel form. It wasn't until the second century that the title “According to Mark” or “The Gospel According to Mark” was affixed to this document."

Who were present with Jesus to hear what he is alleged to have said and how accurately was he quoted, IF THERE WAS A JESUS! How many alterations were made to the text of the Gospel according to Mark in later days, especially after the founding of the Roman Catholic Church at the Council of Nicea 325 CE. Jesus did NOT establish Christianity as it became.

 

[amb]

I am also of the opinion that Jesus was just a myth. Outside of the gospels there is precious little information about this character. Christians often quote Josephus Flavious as been a source outside the N/T. But the earliest copies of this text is silent on Jesus. It is only found in the Antiquities around the fourth century.

R. G. Price in his book:Jesus, A Very Jewish Myth makes a very good case for the whole story originating from the O/T.

 

[zooterkin]

DOC, have you ever considered doing a bit of independent research before making an utter fool of yourself on this thread?

I'll let DOC's 1806 posts in this thread speak for themselves...

 

[Cactus Wren]

So who has superseded the Christian morals of the Reverend Martin Luther King and Mother Theresa.

Dr. King himself certainly far exceeded the morals of the man Jesus, who condoned slavery.

And as to Mother Teresa: very nearly anyone could be said to have superseded the morals of the Ghoul of Calcutta.

 

[kmortis]

I am also of the opinion that Jesus was just a myth. Outside of the gospels there is precious little information about this character. Christians often quote Josephus Flavious as been a source outside the N/T. But the earliest copies of this text is silent on Jesus. It is only found in the Antiquities around the fourth century.

R. G. Price in his book:Jesus, A Very Jewish Myth makes a very good case for the whole story originating from the O/T.

The problem there is that The Christ Myth is in the minority of biblical scholars in thinking that Jesus was made up out of whole cloth. The majority opinion was that the stories were based on a real person and embellished. From what I know, that's Erhman's position.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, mind you, just that most of the people who study these things disagree. Since I have a layman's knowledge, I kinda have to side with the majority on this one. YMMV

 

[kmortis]

I'll let DOC's 1806 posts in this thread speak for themselves...

[hockey announcer]...and there goes DOC across the blue line, Shortcake steals it at center ice and brings it back into the offencive zone...she shoots, rebound, and zooterkin puts it in...HE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/ha]

 

[kmortis]

Dr. King himself certainly far exceeded the morals of the man Jesus, who condoned slavery.

And as to Mother Teresa: very nearly anyone could be said to have superseded the morals of the Ghoul of Calcutta.

With the possible exception of one of her largest supporters, the Duvalier family. Papa Doc (hrm...Papa Doc - DOC? Well, have YOU ever seen them in the same room at the same time?) was a monster, made Mother Thereasa look like the most moral person in the world.

 

[DOC]

...And as to Mother Teresa: very nearly anyone could be said to have superseded the morals of the Ghoul of Calcutta.

A multitude of people have superseded the morality of this cruel and deluded woman{Mother Theresa}.

One has to wonder why 20,000 thousand police were needed for a massive state run funeral and procession using the carriage used by former prime ministers for as you say a cruel and deluded woman.

http://misas.nhb.gov.sg/avs/public/...10&source=Television+Corporation+of+Singapore

 

[tyr_13]

Argumentu ad populum is alive and well I see.

 

[X]

[hockey announcer]...and there goes DOC across the blue line, Shortcake steals it at center ice and brings it back into the offencive zone...she shoots, rebound, and zooterkin puts it in...HE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/ha]

Understandable, really.
In terms of prepardeness and understanding (judging by this and other threads), DOC has shown up to your hockey analogy in field hockey gear.


By the way, DOC, have you any reply to this:

Strawman, never said it does make it true.

And "many" miracles were reported being done by the apostles by Luke (the Luke Sir William M. Ramsay talked about).

[snip]
Websites say [Ramsay] went to show the Bible was incorrect. To my knowledge he found no evidence the bible was incorrect.

Is this the same Sir William M. Ramsay who specifically excluded the supernatural (meaning, among other things, miracles) from his assesment of Luke as a reliable historical source?

Don't go claiming this line of questioning is a non-sequitur or a strawman.
It is neither.
What it is is a perfectly valid criticism of the point you've raised (again).

Either you are arguing miracles as evidence for the truthiness of the New Testament writers, using Ramsay to give the claim of miracles some evidenciary weight, or you are just spouting nonsense.

If the former, see my first paragraph in this post.
If the latter, why are you making off-topic posts?

Ball's in your court, DOC...

 

[joobz]

One has to wonder why 20,000 thousand police were needed for a massive state run funeral and procession using the carriage used by former prime ministers for as you say a cruel and deluded woman.

http://misas.nhb.gov.sg/avs/public/...10&source=Television+Corporation+of+Singapore

Popular funerals are proof of goodness.
So you must believe that Ted Kennedy was an extremely good person.

ETA:
Scratch that. You must believe that Michael Jackson is the most moral person in the 20th century.

 

[Akhenaten]

One has to wonder why 20,000 thousand police were needed for a massive state run funeral and procession using the carriage used by former prime ministers for as you say a cruel and deluded woman.

While one is wondering about such irrelevant nonsense, others are wondering where is the evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

Perhaps one should be wondering about how one is going to answer that instead of speculating about travel arrangements for dead nuns.

One wouldn't want to be reported for being off-topic, would one?

 

[kmortis]

While one is wondering about such irrelevant nonsense, others are wondering where is the evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

Perhaps one should be wondering about how one is going to answer that instead of speculating about travel arrangements for dead nuns.

One wouldn't want to be reported for being off-topic, would one?

Pharoah, you mean answering questions like this one?

Well I'm sure Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama, probably never read post 11054 but something convinced them.

Convinced them of what?

 

[paximperium]

using the carriage used by former prime ministers for as you say a cruel and deluded woman.

http://misas.nhb.gov.sg/avs/public/...10&source=Television+Corporation+of+Singapore

One has to wonder why tens of thousands of police were needed for a massive state run funeral and procession Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini which was attended by over 2million mourners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhollah_Khomeini#cite_note-120

One has to wonder why thousands of police were needed for a massive state run funeral and procession of Mao Zedong which was attended by over 1 million mourners and which over 800million mourners held a mass moment of silent mourning.
http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/English/e2002/20021/1970nian.htm

So what were you saying again DOC?

 

[Akhenaten]

Pharoah, you mean answering questions like this one?

Well I'm sure Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama, probably never read post 11054 but something convinced them.

Convinced them of what?

That would be a wonderful place to start!

Let's hear it DOC.

You might like to include in your answer the reason you missed the question the first eleventy times you were asked.

 

[Simon39759]

I'll let DOC's 1806 posts in this thread speak for themselves...

Brilliant!

Popular funerals are proof of goodness.
So you must believe that Ted Kennedy was an extremely good person.
ETA:
Scratch that. You must believe that Michael Jackson is the most moral person in the 20th century.

He was almost godly. You know, by RCC standards...